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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show on Martin

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Willis your host and we've got another

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great show for you this evening backed

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by popular demand as they say is Mario

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Woods last time he was on it was a

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pre-recorded show and this uh time

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you'll have an opportunity if you're

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watching live to uh ask a question or

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two and just remember when you're doing

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that in chat

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um that you want to do all caps so I

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catch the question and if it fits and I

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can use it or I can go back to it at a

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later time and use it in another part of

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the conversation I'll be glad to do that

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for you

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um I want to uh thank everyone that

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supports the show and anyone can do that

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all you have to go do is go to podcast

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ufo.com and the support page

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um and there are people that support the

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show in so many other ways and I want to

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thank them as well first of all uh

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Charles Lear who does the blogs and

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audio blogs I can't thank him enough

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this week a trucker reports a harrowing

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UFO encounter that's the name of the

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blog and that was back in 1973 and it's

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very interesting uh Charles is uh the

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author of The Flying Saucer investigator

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is a great book

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um I hope you uh get that the link to

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that is on

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um is on the page as well and now I'm

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putting them in his blogs that he does

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uh we have Grant Cameron next week

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coming up and uh I want to thank a few

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people uh Donna my producer for all that

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she does thank you very much uh Brock is

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helping out over on Facebook thank you

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very much for all that you do Brock he

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also helps me by sending me interesting

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things and through emails and so does

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Phil Long Time listener and friend and

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supporter uh Palmer uh thank you Palmer

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use he sends me some very interesting

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stuff I'm getting a lot of I think it's

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eyes on Cinema a lot of people are

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sending me links to that there are some

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fascinating uh YouTube videos that have

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come up I'm not really sure where

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they're coming from but they're really

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great so uh and I've tried to get the

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person that is running that channel

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um on this show but I have not heard

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back from him but anyway

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um I think I've talked enough that's

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it's about me and again remember when

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you're in chat and you want to post a

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question please use all caps so I catch

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them and I'm bringing them in now Mario

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welcome to the show thank you Martin

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nice to be here with you again yes yes I

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had a lot of people really excited about

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you you coming back on so uh and I'm

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glad you're here and there you know I

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mean we'll talk about

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I know this is you know one type of

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situation that happened to you but it's

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fascinating and a lot of people may have

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not caught the first show so I do want

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to go over the the whole uh situation at

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November 5 is that the name of the uh

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where the encounter happened yes that

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was that was the missile site launch

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facility yes the launching facility is

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called November 5. correct and and

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that's at um Ellsworth is that right

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Ellsworth well Ellsworth is the main

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support base and I see you're you're we

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we were at November 1 uh launch control

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facility where we live for three days at

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a time then you're off for three days

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so we simply responded to an alarm

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and I can go into that if you'd like but

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yeah November 5 was the affected launch

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facility Minuteman missile site and we

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arrived there you know maybe quarter

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till one or ten to one A.M

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on November cold night and everything

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started from that point

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yeah yeah and we'll we'll get right into

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that and everything but first of all I

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wanted to tell you last time you were on

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you mentioned about your childhood UFO

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sighting and you're sighting that you

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had I think you said it was back in 1961

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or something like that out of the school

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yard

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and my mother yes yeah your your uh

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sighting was very much like a person in

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the UFO field had a very similar

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sighting his name is Peter Robbins he

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talks about three silver discs him and

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his sister saw

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um and uh it just sounded so similar in

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formation the way they were flying and

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all that uh I I mentioned it to him and

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he listened to your podcasts and yeah he

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thought there was some uh similarities

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in the two

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um and it could have been right around

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yeah and he's uh where were you at the

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time like this is what I can't remember

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Port Arthur Texas oh you're in Texas

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yeah my father shipped in and out of

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Port Arthur yes I believe he was right

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in New York City or right in right near

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there uh I believe so but yeah I mean

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they just doesn't matter to those guys

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right

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yeah yeah and this is a schoolyard

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situation why don't you just for the

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person that hasn't heard that why don't

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you kind of go over what exactly

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happened you were were you actually in

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the car with your yes my mother was

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taking me to schools matter of fact I

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was five or six years old like six years

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old I was born in 55 and um

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anyway I was sitting in the front seat

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uh six-year-olds were allowed to do that

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back then and we were just two blocks

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from the school anyway but the school

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was a a facility where you kindergarten

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to 12th grade it was a one building

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School

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and uh they had this street directly in

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front of it uh fenced off and then the

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block across the street from the school

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was a playground

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and I don't know the exact number of

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students there uh

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never did it was a lot of a lot of kids

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and young teenagers there because I said

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it went to 12th grade and we were

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probably fifth or sixth in line that I

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can remember looking at the cars in

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front of me that I can I can think back

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that far and see them I always try to

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take a picture of something that's

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important in my mind I don't know how I

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can do that but I can always go back to

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that for some reason but

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my mother actually saw them first she

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was driving and uh

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she said Anthony my middle name she goes

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look at those flying saucers and my

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sister was in the back seat and I was in

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the front seat

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and I just went where and she was

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pointing to them and they were to her

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left and there was a church on the left

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and it was directly next side by side to

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the school it's no longer there but it

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was a really pretty Brick Church at the

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time

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and uh

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I got under the window and I just looked

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at it you know like looking out of the

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top of the window underneath the the

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rear view visor there your rear view

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mirror you know and I just couldn't

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believe what I was seeing and everybody

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everything just went quiet and everybody

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was looking at them all the cars in

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front of us and people were hanging out

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the uh out of the within the Western

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Windows of the school looking up and

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pointing and all the kids on the

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playground I just did a quick scan at

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six years old when I saw this because I

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couldn't believe it was happening but it

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was the most normal thing

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to happen I don't there was not any fear

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or anything but it was like hey they're

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supposed to be here they just they're

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supposed to be here

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and they probably sat there for

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a minute or two maybe maybe three

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minutes I'm really not sure but enough

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to get a really good good look at them

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and my sister said I'm scared I'm scared

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Anthony my middle name and uh

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I didn't even answer I just kept looking

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and then all of a sudden

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just as they were there they went

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straight up completely almost like to

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punch a hole in the sky together at the

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same time there was not one two three it

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was all three at one time just

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boost straight up I mean in a blast of a

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second they were just out of view out of

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the atmosphere I guess

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now if I remember right nobody talked

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about it really that much no everybody

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just went back to playing like nothing

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had happened it was

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as if nothing happened it was just the

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craziest thing you know and when I went

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back I was working for a shipping

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company out of Norway and when I was I

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was back there in 08. and um

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I I was in Port Arthur so I went right

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by the old right by my school matter of

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fact I picked up picked up a couple of

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rocks I have today from the playground

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that's still there and of course the

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school's been rebuilt and the church is

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gone but I sat on that corner for a

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moment because it meant something to me

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at that point in time I guess and and uh

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just reflected you know what what was

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that and you know how cool that was to

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witnessed that but yeah it was it was

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really quite extraordinary to see that

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so throughout your life you must have

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wondered what this whole thing is about

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always always my you know my father used

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to you know he was a Siemens he was a

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chief engineer with Texaco and you know

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he would sometimes we would fish

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together and he would sometimes talk of

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Lights Under the Sea and uh I never you

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know I I never really

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said too much about him and he said yeah

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there's there are things under the sea

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that move extremely fast 50 times faster

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than our ships you know and you know

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most most vessels coming up there coming

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up the Gulf Stream you know surrounding

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Florida they're running 30 knots you

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know I mean they pick up the Gulf Stream

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and they're flying they said these

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things just blow by them you know or you

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know he's even he'd even talked about

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things coming up and out of the Sea and

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the whole crew would see it a crew of 29

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or 30 men

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boy

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something to talk to someone that

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actually witnessed those absolutely when

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I worked for that shipping company I

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used to always ask the captains of my

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vessels they were all Filipino we had

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four vessels that were uh uh had

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latvians on board and uh but anything

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coming out of Mobile Alabama or Panama

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City I would always ask the captains hey

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anything weird going out there you know

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because I I have two of my my dad's uh

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cousins went down on the Marine sofa

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Queen I think that was in 63 if I'm not

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mistaken and my dad got off of that

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vessel uh in Port Arthur and as she's

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when she sailed she sunk hmm that was

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the last of that that was the marine

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sofa queen that was in uh Charles

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berlitz's book also the Bermuda Triangle

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wow wow

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um so what did he think about your

273
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sighting that you had at the schoolyard

274
00:11:11,930 --> 00:11:09,480
I don't really know if he ever

275
00:11:14,210 --> 00:11:11,940
remembered my mother ever told him

276
00:11:15,769 --> 00:11:14,220
my toddler was always at Sea man I mean

277
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:15,779
I was like the man of the house you know

278
00:11:20,449 --> 00:11:18,720
always even from a young age I mean I

279
00:11:22,670 --> 00:11:20,459
took care of my mom my sister and then

280
00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:22,680
my my two baby brothers you know yeah

281
00:11:31,130 --> 00:11:28,140
yeah wow and so time goes by and you

282
00:11:33,530 --> 00:11:31,140
enlist and that was like the only

283
00:11:34,910 --> 00:11:33,540
encounter you had until the Air Force

284
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:34,920
encounter right

285
00:11:40,069 --> 00:11:37,200
yeah it's I had seen a few things in the

286
00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:40,079
in the atmosphere like over in Tampa and

287
00:11:44,569 --> 00:11:42,420
um one time over at uh in Cocoa Beach

288
00:11:46,009 --> 00:11:44,579
but it wasn't anything definitive it

289
00:11:49,069 --> 00:11:46,019
wasn't any kind of crap that I could

290
00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:49,079
identify or or anything like that I may

291
00:11:53,150 --> 00:11:50,760
have just been an aircraft you know from

292
00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:53,160
the Air Force or special projects I

293
00:11:57,650 --> 00:11:54,600
don't know you know that was an early

294
00:11:59,449 --> 00:11:57,660
time so yeah yeah no not until not until

295
00:12:00,590 --> 00:11:59,459
South Dakota did I really see something

296
00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:00,600
that

297
00:12:08,509 --> 00:12:06,540
since you have been on what we when

298
00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:08,519
you're on the last time I know that

299
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:11,459
someone contacted you that uh through my

300
00:12:17,329 --> 00:12:15,000
podcast uh that you were that you were

301
00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:17,339
in I don't know if you were you in

302
00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:19,920
elsewhere at the same time or where

303
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:22,079
where are you stationed together that

304
00:12:27,650 --> 00:12:23,519
was on air base

305
00:12:31,730 --> 00:12:27,660
oh uh-huh yeah and uh and but anyway

306
00:12:33,710 --> 00:12:31,740
have you had has it been any other like

307
00:12:37,250 --> 00:12:33,720
new developments in any type of way

308
00:12:39,069 --> 00:12:37,260
other than her getting in touch with you

309
00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:39,079
um since we've last talked

310
00:12:44,030 --> 00:12:41,220
yeah it's funny you should ask that

311
00:12:47,210 --> 00:12:44,040
because uh I did something last night um

312
00:12:50,269 --> 00:12:47,220
with it with another moderator and uh

313
00:12:52,670 --> 00:12:50,279
um anyway I I several people contacted

314
00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:52,680
me because I put my email out there and

315
00:12:56,030 --> 00:12:54,060
you know I told you that in my

316
00:12:58,190 --> 00:12:56,040
debriefing in Colonel spraker's office

317
00:13:01,490 --> 00:12:58,200
at Ellsworth the day the day following

318
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:01,500
it the occurrence but um or the day of

319
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,120
it was just really late in the afternoon

320
00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:05,519
by that time but

321
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:06,600
um

322
00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:10,260
Richard Doty was at Mighty briefing and

323
00:13:13,730 --> 00:13:12,180
he was a young trainee at the time and I

324
00:13:15,050 --> 00:13:13,740
put out several times on several

325
00:13:16,910 --> 00:13:15,060
different shows that I would like to

326
00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:16,920
speak with him because you know getting

327
00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:19,560
that verification you know is important

328
00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:21,540
you know that you get somebody that says

329
00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:23,700
yep I remember this guy I remember this

330
00:13:27,470 --> 00:13:25,260
guy I remember what we did and what we

331
00:13:29,569 --> 00:13:27,480
talked about because he was like one of

332
00:13:30,889 --> 00:13:29,579
six people five or six people that were

333
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:30,899
there but he was

334
00:13:35,810 --> 00:13:33,120
he was of young training at the time I

335
00:13:38,509 --> 00:13:35,820
do know that for a fact so as of today

336
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,519
uh he was given my number and my email

337
00:13:42,650 --> 00:13:40,800
and hope that he'll call me I just want

338
00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:42,660
to discuss it with him I'm gonna say Hey

339
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:44,760
you remember me because I remember you I

340
00:13:49,850 --> 00:13:47,519
remember your face you know I mean I

341
00:13:51,769 --> 00:13:49,860
really do but and it I've been saying it

342
00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:51,779
all along I just like the I'd like to

343
00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:52,860
talk to him

344
00:13:57,949 --> 00:13:55,260
now I heard I heard through the

345
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:57,959
grapevine that he confirmed that he did

346
00:14:02,050 --> 00:13:59,760
that he was there

347
00:14:06,050 --> 00:14:02,060
I don't know

348
00:14:08,329 --> 00:14:06,060
anything or seen anything concerning

349
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,339
that but I would really speak with him

350
00:14:14,329 --> 00:14:11,040
yeah yeah so why don't we get into it

351
00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:14,339
because this is uh this is one of the

352
00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:17,100
most amazing Stories and I know I heard

353
00:14:22,370 --> 00:14:19,260
it once and a lot of our listeners

354
00:14:25,490 --> 00:14:22,380
perhaps heard it when you were on last

355
00:14:27,889 --> 00:14:25,500
year but let's uh let's get into that

356
00:14:30,410 --> 00:14:27,899
night uh that this happened and what was

357
00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:30,420
the date again on that uh it was in

358
00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:32,100
November it was just before

359
00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:35,220
um Thanksgiving yeah it was 1977 and a

360
00:14:39,949 --> 00:14:37,500
blizzard had taken place in late October

361
00:14:41,329 --> 00:14:39,959
and the temperature in South Dakota gets

362
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:41,339
extremely cold especially on the

363
00:14:45,170 --> 00:14:43,199
Prairies now in Rapid City it's usually

364
00:14:47,810 --> 00:14:45,180
a few degrees different because that's

365
00:14:49,850 --> 00:14:47,820
the banana belt of the Black Hills and

366
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:49,860
uh as winds come from the Northwest the

367
00:14:53,629 --> 00:14:52,800
Black Hills insulate Rapid City somewhat

368
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,639
um

369
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:55,440
but yeah on the Prairies it's extremely

370
00:15:01,850 --> 00:14:58,320
cold now and and November 1 we were

371
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:01,860
located north of uh Sturgis

372
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:02,639
um

373
00:15:09,290 --> 00:15:06,000
and east of the Wyoming state line and

374
00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:09,300
uh I'd say probably 40 miles away to the

375
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:10,920
Wyoming state line

376
00:15:15,650 --> 00:15:13,920
but uh the next town north of us is

377
00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:15,660
Belle Fourche I think that's about 29

378
00:15:19,310 --> 00:15:17,160
miles away from us

379
00:15:20,949 --> 00:15:19,320
what you see there is Newell Lake

380
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:20,959
Reservoir Dam

381
00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:24,959
that's where you end up and well I'm

382
00:15:29,629 --> 00:15:27,420
sorry I was I saw the map and I just

383
00:15:31,490 --> 00:15:29,639
pulled it up but um oh

384
00:15:33,470 --> 00:15:31,500
um and this was from the last time they

385
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:33,480
were on is this does this have any

386
00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:35,880
significance that's November 5 missile

387
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,560
site from oh that's the November five

388
00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:40,079
years site okay all right so but anyway

389
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:41,820
go ahead and continue sorry for that

390
00:15:46,129 --> 00:15:43,740
well do you want me to start when it

391
00:15:48,350 --> 00:15:46,139
happened or when it uh went up First

392
00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:48,360
Signal them or how or I think uh when

393
00:15:53,569 --> 00:15:51,420
you you first I remember you went

394
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:53,579
outside to smoke a cigarette I did and

395
00:15:57,050 --> 00:15:55,680
you saw a light at a distance or you

396
00:15:59,769 --> 00:15:57,060
thought it was a light or you didn't

397
00:16:03,949 --> 00:15:59,779
know what it was and then I remember you

398
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:03,959
signaled your the big cans uh the

399
00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:05,760
whatever they call those floodlight cans

400
00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:08,100
yeah and uh yeah so go ahead and let's

401
00:16:13,069 --> 00:16:10,920
let's talk about the whole thing it was

402
00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:13,079
about nine about 9 30 at night nine

403
00:16:16,490 --> 00:16:14,940
stepped outside and it was extremely

404
00:16:21,710 --> 00:16:16,500
cold I think the temperature of between

405
00:16:23,210 --> 00:16:21,720
nine and 13 degrees and uh I just got

406
00:16:24,889 --> 00:16:23,220
walked out to stretch my legs because

407
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:24,899
you're only gonna have three channels

408
00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:28,500
there to watch TV or read a book or play

409
00:16:32,689 --> 00:16:30,360
a board game or something you know or

410
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:32,699
something like that but anyway I stepped

411
00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:34,320
out just to take a break and I smoked a

412
00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:35,880
cigarette I did that then

413
00:16:41,569 --> 00:16:38,639
and I see this object to the to the east

414
00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:41,579
direct east of us or to our location

415
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:43,320
uh to the launch control facility

416
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:46,320
location uh which is November one and it

417
00:16:50,329 --> 00:16:48,720
was about a 30 degree angle in the sky

418
00:16:52,490 --> 00:16:50,339
and I thought it was really strange

419
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:52,500
because of the luminosity

420
00:16:57,230 --> 00:16:54,480
the brightness and the color of the

421
00:17:00,290 --> 00:16:57,240
light just was unfamiliar to me

422
00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:00,300
and uh you know you see a Searchlight

423
00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:03,180
from a helicopter or something like that

424
00:17:07,309 --> 00:17:04,380
today

425
00:17:09,049 --> 00:17:07,319
this was just different you see uh

426
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,059
aircraft lights near a Runway or

427
00:17:12,829 --> 00:17:11,280
something this was just different than

428
00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:12,839
that and it's very difficult to explain

429
00:17:19,309 --> 00:17:15,480
how different it is but it gets your

430
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:22,250
anyway as I watched it it just the

431
00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:24,900
intensity of it was just really baffling

432
00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:27,299
and I went well is that a helicopter is

433
00:17:33,289 --> 00:17:29,880
that B-52 bombers because elsewhere

434
00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:33,299
supported a strategic uh wing of ready

435
00:17:41,090 --> 00:17:38,940
alert bombers B-52s at the time and uh

436
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:41,100
so just for fun

437
00:17:45,529 --> 00:17:43,919
and that's the only way I can put it uh

438
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:45,539
after watching it four or five minutes

439
00:17:50,169 --> 00:17:48,360
literally I just walked inside and my

440
00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:50,179
buddy Bill Holland was on the phone

441
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,280
talking to his wife and uh back at uh in

442
00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:54,960
Rapid City and I said Bill I said

443
00:17:58,669 --> 00:17:56,520
there's something out here in the

444
00:18:00,289 --> 00:17:58,679
atmosphere you know in the air I said I

445
00:18:01,610 --> 00:18:00,299
don't know what it is I said Is it real

446
00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:01,620
bright light I said I don't know if it's

447
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:05,220
uh helicopters or any word from anybody

448
00:18:09,169 --> 00:18:07,440
on anything and he just waved me off and

449
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:09,179
I I just thought well I'm gonna flip the

450
00:18:13,549 --> 00:18:11,039
facility lights out and there's 12 to 14

451
00:18:15,049 --> 00:18:13,559
of those two foot cans which are

452
00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:15,059
security perimeter lights and we have

453
00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:16,740
what an eight or ten foot fence around

454
00:18:20,570 --> 00:18:18,600
the entire area

455
00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:20,580
and they are just what they say they are

456
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:22,020
they're security perimeter lights that

457
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,740
light up everything outside you know so

458
00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:27,600
I just walked up to one rocker switch

459
00:18:32,029 --> 00:18:29,220
and I just flipped it off and on three

460
00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:32,039
or four times just blip blip

461
00:18:36,830 --> 00:18:34,500
walk back outside we looked at the

462
00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:36,840
looked it's probably just sitting there

463
00:18:40,730 --> 00:18:38,940
and all sudden it just flipped off and

464
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:40,740
flipped on flipped off and flipped back

465
00:18:46,370 --> 00:18:42,080
on and I went

466
00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:46,380
wow that worked you know I just kind of

467
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:47,640
laughed

468
00:18:54,590 --> 00:18:50,400
uh it's funny I got a helicopter passing

469
00:18:55,850 --> 00:18:54,600
overhead right now but no anyway

470
00:18:57,169 --> 00:18:55,860
um

471
00:18:58,970 --> 00:18:57,179
so I thought well that's that's

472
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,980
interesting so I walked back inside

473
00:19:01,549 --> 00:19:00,000
again

474
00:19:03,289 --> 00:19:01,559
and I didn't say anything to Bill

475
00:19:06,289 --> 00:19:03,299
Holloman but I did say something to

476
00:19:08,090 --> 00:19:06,299
Michael Johnson and I said Michael this

477
00:19:09,529 --> 00:19:08,100
guy is working vacation relief so I

478
00:19:11,450 --> 00:19:09,539
really don't know him it was our first

479
00:19:14,029 --> 00:19:11,460
time we ever worked together and he

480
00:19:16,010 --> 00:19:14,039
replaced my partner who's going back to

481
00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:16,020
the Carolinas get married

482
00:19:20,029 --> 00:19:17,820
and normally I would be the team leader

483
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:20,039
but he outranked Me by two months real

484
00:19:23,870 --> 00:19:21,840
nice guy Michael Johnson

485
00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:23,880
been trying to find him for years now

486
00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:28,500
but um with no with no luck but uh so

487
00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:30,360
anyway I I said you got to see this man

488
00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:31,740
I just flipped the lights of this thing

489
00:19:36,110 --> 00:19:33,960
out here and it slid the lights back at

490
00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:36,120
me or it went off and went back on like

491
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,980
I flipped the lights at it

492
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,840
and he just kind of looked at me kind of

493
00:19:42,590 --> 00:19:41,280
strange you know

494
00:19:44,450 --> 00:19:42,600
hmm

495
00:19:46,430 --> 00:19:44,460
and you know you got to mind you're in

496
00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:46,440
the middle of a prairie there is nothing

497
00:19:51,230 --> 00:19:49,260
but Buffalo running out there there are

498
00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:51,240
no there's no trees you know the the

499
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:53,400
state tree is a mall Bell telephone pole

500
00:19:55,789 --> 00:19:54,720
that's the way you always used to have a

501
00:19:57,409 --> 00:19:55,799
joke

502
00:19:59,930 --> 00:19:57,419
and um

503
00:20:02,090 --> 00:19:59,940
uh anyway so I'll walk back outside and

504
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,100
it's still there

505
00:20:06,350 --> 00:20:04,320
he came out a few minutes later and I

506
00:20:07,789 --> 00:20:06,360
said watch this thing you know so it

507
00:20:09,289 --> 00:20:07,799
didn't do anything I went back in and

508
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:09,299
flipped the lights on this went on three

509
00:20:13,850 --> 00:20:11,760
times and it did flip the lights back

510
00:20:16,250 --> 00:20:13,860
off and back on and the last time it did

511
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:16,260
it it moved further north

512
00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:20,460
uh with the lights with it off and part

513
00:20:23,330 --> 00:20:21,780
of that it just seemed as if it was

514
00:20:24,830 --> 00:20:23,340
staying in the same place I thought it

515
00:20:27,529 --> 00:20:24,840
was coming towards us it didn't get

516
00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:27,539
bigger or anything like that it just it

517
00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:29,220
just stayed the same

518
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:32,160
but when it went off the last time and

519
00:20:37,610 --> 00:20:34,980
prior to it coming back on it had moved

520
00:20:39,650 --> 00:20:37,620
more North but yet

521
00:20:42,650 --> 00:20:39,660
kind of West too kind of like at an

522
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:42,660
angle like a Northwest trajectory

523
00:20:47,870 --> 00:20:46,020
and when it came back on I saw it

524
00:20:49,610 --> 00:20:47,880
and I went wow well he had walked back

525
00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:49,620
inside because he just didn't know

526
00:20:52,370 --> 00:20:51,059
whatever he didn't think anything about

527
00:20:53,870 --> 00:20:52,380
it

528
00:20:55,669 --> 00:20:53,880
and I'd say that's probably right around

529
00:20:57,409 --> 00:20:55,679
quarter to ten ten till 10 something

530
00:20:59,810 --> 00:20:57,419
like that I try to keep the time

531
00:21:02,390 --> 00:20:59,820
straight but

532
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:02,400
so it it went off and I didn't see it

533
00:21:06,529 --> 00:21:04,380
again and there I remember saying to

534
00:21:08,150 --> 00:21:06,539
myself I said I guess this show's over

535
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:08,160
and uh

536
00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:12,590
you know turning around and looking

537
00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:14,520
again over my shoulder back in the front

538
00:21:18,230 --> 00:21:16,140
door of the lcf

539
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:18,240
and uh

540
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:22,080
nothing so anyway we started doing

541
00:21:26,570 --> 00:21:24,000
something and the TV went off or the

542
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:26,580
channels end at midnight so you get

543
00:21:29,870 --> 00:21:28,320
those weird warble things or whatever

544
00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:29,880
you know on the screen you just turn the

545
00:21:34,730 --> 00:21:31,380
TV off because that's there's no more

546
00:21:37,549 --> 00:21:34,740
programming and uh yeah that antenna is

547
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:37,559
still standing I helped erect that still

548
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:38,880
in the back of the building man I

549
00:21:44,810 --> 00:21:42,480
couldn't believe it but anyway uh

550
00:21:48,830 --> 00:21:44,820
I guess it was it was right after it was

551
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:48,840
about 12 30 or so and the in the the uh

552
00:21:53,810 --> 00:21:51,600
flight Security controller's office he's

553
00:21:55,549 --> 00:21:53,820
the one that dispatches us but yet he's

554
00:21:57,289 --> 00:21:55,559
there's there's

555
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:57,299
in a configuration on the launch control

556
00:22:01,010 --> 00:21:59,039
facility you have six security police

557
00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:01,020
officers three or which are on duty at

558
00:22:05,810 --> 00:22:03,480
all times one flight security controller

559
00:22:07,250 --> 00:22:05,820
he is the one that tells us where we're

560
00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:07,260
going what we're doing

561
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,020
kind of like our our guy in charge for

562
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,240
us for security police and then we

563
00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:14,640
answer to the launch control uh capsule

564
00:22:19,789 --> 00:22:17,220
members uh which uh captain and a

565
00:22:21,470 --> 00:22:19,799
lieutenant uh commander and an assistant

566
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:21,480
Underground

567
00:22:26,690 --> 00:22:24,240
and um anyway they're monitoring all the

568
00:22:29,450 --> 00:22:26,700
missiles underground 60 75 feet however

569
00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:29,460
deep we have one facility manager

570
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:32,460
and then you have a site cook also and

571
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,620
in reserve you have three security

572
00:22:40,330 --> 00:22:36,720
officers one flight security controller

573
00:22:42,770 --> 00:22:40,340
two response officers or or as we were

574
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:42,780
and then you have two additional

575
00:22:47,690 --> 00:22:45,720
officers that are that are the launch

576
00:22:51,289 --> 00:22:47,700
control relief officers so you have four

577
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,299
officers six cops facility manager and a

578
00:22:56,090 --> 00:22:53,280
site cook on a site at one time all the

579
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:56,100
time 24 hours seven days a week

580
00:23:00,350 --> 00:22:58,140
so anyway the alarm goes off on this

581
00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:00,360
phone and as that phone rings it's one

582
00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:02,520
of those direct alert phones that have

583
00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:04,380
that really strange sound and like that

584
00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:06,120
you know it rings until you pick it up

585
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:07,380
hmm

586
00:23:13,310 --> 00:23:10,740
so Bill Holloman gets picks the phone up

587
00:23:15,890 --> 00:23:13,320
and he's listening to what the commander

588
00:23:17,450 --> 00:23:15,900
is telling him we I hear sit for

589
00:23:19,970 --> 00:23:17,460
November 5.

590
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,980
he said he says 10-4 that will do this

591
00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:21,600
do that you know we followed our normal

592
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:23,700
procedures our code tables our weapons

593
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:25,500
and everything our vehicle was sitting

594
00:23:31,370 --> 00:23:28,320
directly outside the door an f-154

595
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:31,380
pickup truck which we have our ditty

596
00:23:35,210 --> 00:23:32,940
bags ready and everything ready to go

597
00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:35,220
our flat pants our parkas and all that

598
00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:37,020
stuff's ready to go

599
00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:39,780
get all in get in everything and uh once

600
00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:41,400
we got our safety briefing from

601
00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:43,320
downstairs which Michael Johnson

602
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:45,780
obtained that Wing security control

603
00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:48,240
chimes in and now they're back at the

604
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,580
main sport base at Ellsworth they're

605
00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:52,559
like the overseeing security Force for

606
00:23:57,890 --> 00:23:54,780
everybody they can they do many things

607
00:24:00,049 --> 00:23:57,900
whether it be on the the aircraft alert

608
00:24:01,669 --> 00:24:00,059
pad back at base or whether we have an

609
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:01,679
incident out in the field they're like

610
00:24:07,010 --> 00:24:04,500
the central controlling uh uh office

611
00:24:09,890 --> 00:24:07,020
that looks at everything so

612
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,900
anyway we get in our vehicle we've got

613
00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:12,240
about a 15-minute travel time to

614
00:24:17,870 --> 00:24:15,720
November 1 and as we depart the site go

615
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:17,880
out the end of the road take a left go

616
00:24:22,010 --> 00:24:19,860
to and it's these are all clay roads now

617
00:24:24,409 --> 00:24:22,020
they go all the way to Wyoming or all

618
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:24,419
the way to Montana on Clay Road that

619
00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:26,940
better than most interstate highways are

620
00:24:30,649 --> 00:24:29,640
they plowed though excuse me are they

621
00:24:34,669 --> 00:24:30,659
plowed

622
00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:34,679
uh yeah yeah they really are and also we

623
00:24:38,330 --> 00:24:36,360
have a front end loader on the facility

624
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,340
if they ever get we got snowed in a few

625
00:24:43,130 --> 00:24:40,559
times and we used our front end loader

626
00:24:46,909 --> 00:24:43,140
to plow all the way out to Highway 79.

627
00:24:48,909 --> 00:24:46,919
so um but yes sir that that's true and

628
00:24:51,049 --> 00:24:48,919
but the state keeps really really good

629
00:24:52,850 --> 00:24:51,059
everything's really good power's always

630
00:24:55,789 --> 00:24:52,860
on because they built underground all

631
00:24:58,370 --> 00:24:55,799
those years ago oh wow yeah even even in

632
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:58,380
Rapid City you never lose power but uh

633
00:25:05,810 --> 00:25:01,919
so anyway we proceeded onward and um the

634
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:05,820
time now was probably 12 35 12 40. we

635
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:07,679
had a 15 minute travel time

636
00:25:13,130 --> 00:25:10,799
and as we took that left and went on to

637
00:25:15,409 --> 00:25:13,140
a clay road directly in front of

638
00:25:18,049 --> 00:25:15,419
November 1 goes to the next intersection

639
00:25:20,029 --> 00:25:18,059
four-way intersection dirt road took

640
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:20,039
another left to go to Highway 79 it's

641
00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:21,720
about four and a half miles up to

642
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:23,400
Highway 79.

643
00:25:28,730 --> 00:25:25,860
and while you're traveling up to Highway

644
00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:28,740
79 the road beds normally built up

645
00:25:34,610 --> 00:25:31,919
higher so moisture and snow and water

646
00:25:36,890 --> 00:25:34,620
and ice will flow off of them before

647
00:25:38,450 --> 00:25:36,900
they even salt them or what have you so

648
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:38,460
as they were going up that hill I just

649
00:25:41,390 --> 00:25:40,440
I'm in the passenger side and this is

650
00:25:43,310 --> 00:25:41,400
important

651
00:25:45,649 --> 00:25:43,320
I looked over to the four o'clock

652
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:45,659
position now this is just flat Prairie

653
00:25:51,110 --> 00:25:48,000
Land you got you know it's I mean you

654
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:51,120
can see a long way out there and I saw

655
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:53,400
this faint glow

656
00:25:56,990 --> 00:25:55,320
at about my four o'clock position over

657
00:26:00,649 --> 00:25:57,000
my right shoulder looking out the window

658
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:00,659
of this F1 54 pickup truck

659
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:03,600
and I was like man I said Michael do you

660
00:26:06,649 --> 00:26:04,799
see that

661
00:26:09,289 --> 00:26:06,659
well he didn't even really look and he

662
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:09,299
just kind of said whatever as we as we

663
00:26:14,930 --> 00:26:12,240
pulled up on the Highway 79 so now that

664
00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:14,940
four o'clock position changed to about a

665
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:17,580
two o'clock maybe 1 30 position as the

666
00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:19,320
clock would look in front of you

667
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:21,960
and we're going down the hill downhill

668
00:26:26,029 --> 00:26:23,760
toward Newell

669
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:26,039
and you could see a brighter glow now

670
00:26:31,549 --> 00:26:27,840
because we were up on a we were up on

671
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:31,559
like a top of a plateau on that road

672
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:34,799
and uh as we Traverse toward Newell the

673
00:26:39,169 --> 00:26:37,440
road goes back downhill again so we lost

674
00:26:40,669 --> 00:26:39,179
that glow but I kept saying I said you

675
00:26:41,810 --> 00:26:40,679
see that I said I'm telling you that's

676
00:26:43,850 --> 00:26:41,820
that object

677
00:26:46,130 --> 00:26:43,860
he just he didn't even know what to say

678
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:46,140
he just said whatever I don't think so

679
00:26:48,830 --> 00:26:47,520
or whatever

680
00:26:51,890 --> 00:26:48,840
oh

681
00:26:55,490 --> 00:26:51,900
so the town of Newell at that time had a

682
00:26:58,850 --> 00:26:55,500
population of 234 I believe

683
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,860
and it's only like 650 or 670 for today

684
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:00,960
I was just out there last year oh it

685
00:27:08,990 --> 00:27:07,310
super nice people and all of them are

686
00:27:12,830 --> 00:27:09,000
Great Cooks but we stopped at some

687
00:27:15,769 --> 00:27:12,840
really nice places there but uh

688
00:27:18,529 --> 00:27:15,779
as there's a stop sign we came to that's

689
00:27:20,990 --> 00:27:18,539
Ormond road and it goes to the right and

690
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,000
that's where November 5 is off of

691
00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:23,039
there's one stop sign and there's one

692
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:25,140
stop light in Newell South Dakota and

693
00:27:29,210 --> 00:27:26,820
it's the start the stoplight is straight

694
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,220
ahead about a mile and we've stopped at

695
00:27:32,990 --> 00:27:31,200
the stop sign still there today same

696
00:27:36,649 --> 00:27:33,000
stop sign

697
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:36,659
turn right onto Ormond Road

698
00:27:42,289 --> 00:27:39,000
it goes out about a mile and a half and

699
00:27:44,990 --> 00:27:42,299
it drops from pavement back off to Clay

700
00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:45,000
and when it did that the road dog legs

701
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,440
to the left There's an actual Golf

702
00:27:49,610 --> 00:27:48,000
Course out there today that's on the

703
00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:49,620
left side of the road at Ormond road you

704
00:27:53,930 --> 00:27:52,140
can look it up on Google Maps

705
00:27:57,049 --> 00:27:53,940
and when we tell when we turn that

706
00:28:00,890 --> 00:27:57,059
corner to the left there was an object

707
00:28:03,049 --> 00:28:00,900
there was an object sitting there and

708
00:28:04,730 --> 00:28:03,059
it was and I'm gonna tell you this and

709
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,740
I've used this as a description because

710
00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:06,720
I mean people can relate to it it was a

711
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:08,940
size of a super Walmart building

712
00:28:13,970 --> 00:28:11,039
and it was sitting about 10 foot in the

713
00:28:17,810 --> 00:28:13,980
air directly on top of November 5. no

714
00:28:21,130 --> 00:28:17,820
noise no sound no leading edges no hard

715
00:28:25,010 --> 00:28:21,140
edges no thrust no wings no cockpit

716
00:28:26,690 --> 00:28:25,020
nothing but a huge plasma sphere a craft

717
00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:26,700
of some type

718
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,820
that I can't even explain it I it looked

719
00:28:33,049 --> 00:28:31,679
like a looked like the sun sitting there

720
00:28:35,570 --> 00:28:33,059
yes

721
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,580
oh in that picture where our vehicle is

722
00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:38,159
pulled up at a 45 degree angle there's a

723
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:39,960
cattle gauge just beyond that and from

724
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:41,580
Beyond that cattle gate to the site it's

725
00:28:46,130 --> 00:28:43,679
only about 20 yards

726
00:28:48,169 --> 00:28:46,140
the diameter of this is really not true

727
00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:48,179
that because the diameter of that object

728
00:28:54,830 --> 00:28:50,520
seen by me

729
00:28:56,510 --> 00:28:54,840
was literally over this almost

730
00:28:59,690 --> 00:28:56,520
maybe 20 maybe

731
00:29:02,330 --> 00:28:59,700
20 yards away from how should I explain

732
00:29:05,330 --> 00:29:02,340
this their circumference was so large

733
00:29:07,730 --> 00:29:05,340
that where our vehicle sat it wasn't far

734
00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:07,740
to where the edge of the of the craft

735
00:29:11,149 --> 00:29:08,940
was

736
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:11,159
Ah that's really not a good way to say

737
00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:13,200
it either

738
00:29:22,090 --> 00:29:17,820
the diameter was huge and um

739
00:29:33,789 --> 00:29:26,149
it was as if

740
00:29:36,169 --> 00:29:33,799
electrical plasma light

741
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:36,179
I've seen I've seen welding and I've

742
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:37,860
seen plasma burning and that's what it

743
00:29:43,970 --> 00:29:40,799
reminds me of but it was the atmosphere

744
00:29:46,970 --> 00:29:43,980
was just almost electric or ionized

745
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:49,310
and in that thought

746
00:29:54,769 --> 00:29:52,080
the uh

747
00:29:57,950 --> 00:29:54,779
my partner he just he just literally

748
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:57,960
froze on that steering wheel and uh

749
00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:01,440
I remember seeing a uh

750
00:30:05,630 --> 00:30:04,200
there was like a glow on the left hand

751
00:30:08,090 --> 00:30:05,640
side of him

752
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:08,100
that I've never seen anybody lit up like

753
00:30:11,389 --> 00:30:09,360
that

754
00:30:13,250 --> 00:30:11,399
in any way

755
00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:13,260
and

756
00:30:19,490 --> 00:30:16,140
so fast this came at me was that the

757
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:22,850
was as if someone just sucked it out it

758
00:30:26,210 --> 00:30:24,720
was as if the light was so bright you

759
00:30:29,090 --> 00:30:26,220
could close your eyes and see through

760
00:30:34,250 --> 00:30:31,130
but couldn't breathe

761
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,260
and I honestly felt in that parka and

762
00:30:38,570 --> 00:30:36,000
those flat pants and everything I had on

763
00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:38,580
me that I was I felt as if I was about

764
00:30:43,370 --> 00:30:41,880
to burn up but yet I felt as if I was

765
00:30:45,049 --> 00:30:43,380
being pulled up in the back of that seat

766
00:30:47,389 --> 00:30:45,059
now these weren't cab plus Vehicles

767
00:30:49,549 --> 00:30:47,399
these were single cab f-154 pickup

768
00:30:52,190 --> 00:30:49,559
trucks with Western mirrors

769
00:30:54,289 --> 00:30:52,200
and something sparked in my mind and I

770
00:30:58,430 --> 00:30:54,299
don't know why this happened I'm shaking

771
00:31:03,649 --> 00:31:01,190
I uh roll the window down and I had my

772
00:31:06,649 --> 00:31:03,659
Maglite and uh

773
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:06,659
a D cell Maglite you know they give no

774
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,250
and I had a mitten on my left hand and

775
00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:15,600
my right hand was was Bare

776
00:31:19,549 --> 00:31:17,940
and uh I had my Maglite in it and I

777
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:19,559
reached up and I pulled myself up on

778
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,940
that Western mirror which was big

779
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:22,799
stainless steel mirrors and I pulled

780
00:31:27,230 --> 00:31:25,200
myself up on the windowsill why would I

781
00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:27,240
do that I was you know I was a 210 pound

782
00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:30,539
man six foot two you know but I was

783
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,520
scared to get out of that truck with a

784
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:35,039
weapon or not I mean nothing that you

785
00:31:39,950 --> 00:31:37,620
can think of can can you use or even

786
00:31:42,110 --> 00:31:39,960
think of think of employing at a time

787
00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:42,120
like that

788
00:31:48,889 --> 00:31:47,330
I'll call myself up on that seat

789
00:31:52,490 --> 00:31:48,899
apologize

790
00:31:56,810 --> 00:31:52,500
I pull myself up on that seat

791
00:32:00,590 --> 00:31:59,210
and I took my mad lot Maglite and I held

792
00:32:03,470 --> 00:32:00,600
on to the blue bubble on top of the

793
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:03,480
vehicle and I flashed this in a little

794
00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:07,500
Maglite a D cell Maglite at this object

795
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:10,020
in no sequential order I just flashed it

796
00:32:14,930 --> 00:32:12,240
like okay it's me that's what I that's

797
00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:14,940
what I had to say that's what I and as

798
00:32:18,250 --> 00:32:17,460
soon as I did that the atmosphere came

799
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:18,260
back

800
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:21,840
and when that happened I I said okay and

801
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:23,840
I remember saying something else too

802
00:32:27,769 --> 00:32:26,340
when I slid back down on that seat I put

803
00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:27,779
my weapon between my leg and I told

804
00:32:31,789 --> 00:32:30,059
Michael Johnson I said it'll be okay

805
00:32:33,889 --> 00:32:31,799
I said it'll be okay that's what I said

806
00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:33,899
and then I then everything just kind of

807
00:32:38,510 --> 00:32:35,640
tunnel visioned

808
00:32:43,430 --> 00:32:40,789
uh

809
00:32:46,669 --> 00:32:43,440
I just I just went out

810
00:32:53,510 --> 00:32:49,610
the next thing I know when I uh

811
00:32:57,230 --> 00:32:53,520
then I'm going to tell you this but the

812
00:32:58,909 --> 00:32:57,240
before I before I went out

813
00:33:00,529 --> 00:32:58,919
you know you you're sitting there

814
00:33:01,850 --> 00:33:00,539
thinking in a situation like this you

815
00:33:06,049 --> 00:33:01,860
know what

816
00:33:12,049 --> 00:33:10,250
and I I was able I looked to my right

817
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:12,059
not wanting to

818
00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:14,580
in a in a tunnel configure in a tunnel

819
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:17,880
vision type feeling or something

820
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:20,880
and I saw figures to my right

821
00:33:26,269 --> 00:33:23,100
and I was so afraid because it was only

822
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:26,279
a small thin eighth inch plate glass

823
00:33:31,549 --> 00:33:28,799
window glass between me and whatever was

824
00:33:34,669 --> 00:33:31,559
out there is it this uh that you did a

825
00:33:36,710 --> 00:33:34,679
drawing of that's correct yeah that that

826
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:36,720
one in that waist belt or whatever that

827
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:39,120
is right there that thing scared me

828
00:33:43,549 --> 00:33:42,059
literally to death but the one behind

829
00:33:45,169 --> 00:33:43,559
actually there's four of them there's

830
00:33:47,210 --> 00:33:45,179
three of those little guys but the one

831
00:33:49,250 --> 00:33:47,220
that was behind them the tall one

832
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:49,260
he had something on his chest that

833
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,120
protruded out of his the top of his

834
00:33:55,850 --> 00:33:54,000
chest under his so-called chin that's a

835
00:33:58,250 --> 00:33:55,860
later drawing that's not as good as the

836
00:34:01,930 --> 00:33:58,260
original ones but

837
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:05,149
I know this is uh

838
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:06,240
yeah

839
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:08,639
but uh I know this is this is hard for

840
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:11,220
you to talk because uh

841
00:34:16,070 --> 00:34:13,919
when we talked before even offline I

842
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,080
know it it gets you emotional to talk

843
00:34:23,149 --> 00:34:18,960
about this this was a major thing in

844
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,159
your life yeah so I understand that in

845
00:34:28,369 --> 00:34:25,919
these these are not creatures these

846
00:34:30,889 --> 00:34:28,379
these beings are not creatures these are

847
00:34:32,810 --> 00:34:30,899
beings man these beings they exist

848
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:32,820
they've been here and they've been here

849
00:34:36,169 --> 00:34:34,320
a long time and they've been coming here

850
00:34:38,270 --> 00:34:36,179
and doing anything whatever they want to

851
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:38,280
do okay can't be stopped I don't need

852
00:34:43,010 --> 00:34:40,560
nothing to be understood the technology

853
00:34:44,990 --> 00:34:43,020
is just that our our knowledge is just

854
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:45,000
that much different

855
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:49,200
but to complete what I what happened

856
00:34:55,250 --> 00:34:52,320
after that I went black

857
00:34:57,770 --> 00:34:55,260
yeah before before we move on I just

858
00:34:58,910 --> 00:34:57,780
want to ask you this if you can try to

859
00:35:01,430 --> 00:34:58,920
describe

860
00:35:04,190 --> 00:35:01,440
the sphere

861
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:04,200
was it did it seem like it was perfectly

862
00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:06,240
round or

863
00:35:12,589 --> 00:35:09,300
uh you know or do you think this thing

864
00:35:17,050 --> 00:35:12,599
was sideways like a disc any ideas at

865
00:35:18,829 --> 00:35:17,060
all no it was round is a baseball round

866
00:35:21,530 --> 00:35:18,839
completely round

867
00:35:24,770 --> 00:35:21,540
and that's what I that's what I saw to

868
00:35:27,290 --> 00:35:24,780
the east on November November 1.

869
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:27,300
but I didn't know the size of it yeah

870
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:30,240
well I don't know if the plasma was is a

871
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,740
way in which its uh shape is kept uh uh

872
00:35:38,870 --> 00:35:36,960
from being seen I don't know

873
00:35:42,290 --> 00:35:38,880
I don't know what's in the middle of it

874
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:42,300
but I only know that it looked as if it

875
00:35:47,870 --> 00:35:45,839
was literally on fire but yet controlled

876
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,880
fire if that makes sense

877
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:49,200
hmm

878
00:35:53,450 --> 00:35:52,020
wow so then you everything went black

879
00:35:55,130 --> 00:35:53,460
for you

880
00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:55,140
yes sir

881
00:36:02,089 --> 00:35:57,000
um

882
00:36:05,690 --> 00:36:02,099
somebody just turned me off

883
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:05,700
and then uh literally somebody flipped a

884
00:36:10,270 --> 00:36:07,380
switch I get I don't know how else to

885
00:36:16,370 --> 00:36:12,950
at that time how far away would you say

886
00:36:19,370 --> 00:36:16,380
the beings were uh guess guessing

887
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:19,380
20-foot and approaching me wow so they

888
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:22,320
were fairly close yes

889
00:36:26,569 --> 00:36:24,000
so you so you were able to get a good

890
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:26,579
look at him and and your partner in the

891
00:36:29,870 --> 00:36:28,680
truck he's Frozen he's not even looking

892
00:36:32,750 --> 00:36:29,880
right

893
00:36:35,329 --> 00:36:32,760
no not that I could see I mean at that

894
00:36:37,430 --> 00:36:35,339
particular point I the last I saw of him

895
00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:37,440
was when I told him really the last time

896
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,720
I focused on him was when I told him

897
00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:42,000
it'd be okay you know after I used the

898
00:36:46,730 --> 00:36:44,940
Maglite and I sat back down in the in

899
00:36:49,069 --> 00:36:46,740
the seat and I put my weapon between my

900
00:36:54,290 --> 00:36:50,930
um

901
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:54,300
the next thing that I know

902
00:36:59,390 --> 00:36:56,640
is I woke up

903
00:37:01,849 --> 00:36:59,400
and everything is Pitch Black

904
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:01,859
pitch black nothing running just pitch

905
00:37:08,450 --> 00:37:06,230
oh

906
00:37:10,730 --> 00:37:08,460
and I was looking around and I said

907
00:37:13,849 --> 00:37:10,740
where are we I said Michael what are you

908
00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:13,859
doing what are we doing no answer no

909
00:37:20,450 --> 00:37:15,900
answer at all

910
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,460
I I activated my Maglite it worked

911
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,560
I said man what are we what are we doing

912
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,960
where are we because we weren't where we

913
00:37:29,329 --> 00:37:26,880
were

914
00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:29,339
and I popped the door open and when I

915
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:31,740
did I put my my I had bunny boots on

916
00:37:39,290 --> 00:37:35,280
which are inflatable cold weather boots

917
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:39,300
um that protect your feet

918
00:37:44,510 --> 00:37:42,240
and I stepped out in mud

919
00:37:48,109 --> 00:37:44,520
now it had been cold you know well below

920
00:37:48,849 --> 00:37:48,119
zero for probably 10 days eight or ten

921
00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:48,859
days

922
00:37:52,670 --> 00:37:51,180
and most of the ground elsewhere was

923
00:37:55,010 --> 00:37:52,680
frozen when you walked on it had all

924
00:37:57,770 --> 00:37:55,020
crunched you know so I couldn't figure

925
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:57,780
out why I was standing in mud and of

926
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,280
course that mud is not muddling it's

927
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,200
Clay you know it's it's really not mud

928
00:38:07,130 --> 00:38:03,119
mud but it's Clay

929
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:07,140
and uh I I stepped out with one leg

930
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:09,000
and I looked to my right and there's a

931
00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:10,800
white wall

932
00:38:15,170 --> 00:38:13,440
not a wall that's a 90 degree straight

933
00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:15,180
up from the from the ground straight up

934
00:38:22,210 --> 00:38:18,839
to your side but at an angle

935
00:38:27,470 --> 00:38:25,310
as far south as I could that would be

936
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:27,480
North and South so as far north as I

937
00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:29,940
could see it continued and as far south

938
00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:32,280
as I could see it continued not knowing

939
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,500
where we were and as I was in that mode

940
00:38:38,030 --> 00:38:36,000
of thinking all of a sudden all of a

941
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:38,040
sudden the radio came to life

942
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:41,280
and it's at WSC to November 1. what's

943
00:38:45,890 --> 00:38:42,960
your location

944
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:45,900
and I I turned to Michael Johnson who's

945
00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:48,720
still frozen on that steering wheel

946
00:38:53,810 --> 00:38:51,480
literally he is just like that stuck on

947
00:38:57,410 --> 00:38:53,820
a on a light blue plastic steering wheel

948
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:57,420
on that F-150 Ford I never forget that

949
00:39:02,270 --> 00:38:59,760
his arms were flexed you know he'd been

950
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:02,280
hanging on that steering wheel like

951
00:39:06,770 --> 00:39:04,320
catatonic State I guess and his eyes

952
00:39:07,810 --> 00:39:06,780
were open he was breathing but he wasn't

953
00:39:10,930 --> 00:39:07,820
there

954
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:10,940
I don't know

955
00:39:17,870 --> 00:39:15,839
um

956
00:39:19,849 --> 00:39:17,880
I talked to him and talked to him and I

957
00:39:21,710 --> 00:39:19,859
got you know best I could and I stayed

958
00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:21,720
on I got on a wing security control and

959
00:39:25,730 --> 00:39:24,060
I said his senior Emma Woods I said he

960
00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:25,740
asked my location I said I don't know he

961
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:27,000
said I need you to do one minute

962
00:39:30,349 --> 00:39:28,560
Security checks and I said yesterday

963
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:30,359
because we're trying to triangulate your

964
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:31,440
position

965
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,880
he didn't say anything about anything

966
00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:34,320
else

967
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:37,260
and I didn't know what to ask

968
00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:39,359
so I did what they said

969
00:39:43,849 --> 00:39:42,300
and as that's going on I'm still trying

970
00:39:45,290 --> 00:39:43,859
to you know say something to Michael

971
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:45,300
Johnson to

972
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:48,000
answer me that hey man I'm shaking him

973
00:39:52,849 --> 00:39:51,119
I'm pushing his head nothing nothing I

974
00:39:54,589 --> 00:39:52,859
mean I really tried in every way try to

975
00:39:56,450 --> 00:39:54,599
you know pull his arms pull his hands

976
00:39:58,490 --> 00:39:56,460
off of the steering wheel I mean it

977
00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:58,500
would come but I could tell he wasn't

978
00:40:03,530 --> 00:40:01,320
supposed to and I just left him alone

979
00:40:07,370 --> 00:40:03,540
thinking maybe he would unfreeze you

980
00:40:13,010 --> 00:40:10,069
all of a sudden it started getting light

981
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:13,020
and I hadn't even looked at my watch and

982
00:40:17,930 --> 00:40:16,380
and it was working the low Timex watch

983
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:17,940
and uh

984
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:20,160
five hours had passed and the sun was

985
00:40:24,109 --> 00:40:21,839
coming up in the east

986
00:40:26,510 --> 00:40:24,119
and on the south side of us there's an

987
00:40:28,970 --> 00:40:26,520
old there's a tree it looks like an old

988
00:40:32,030 --> 00:40:28,980
western movie Hanging Tree that's about

989
00:40:33,710 --> 00:40:32,040
a half a mile away it's still there

990
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:33,720
today

991
00:40:38,329 --> 00:40:36,000
that tree and we were on the back side

992
00:40:40,310 --> 00:40:38,339
not knowing this but I'll finish the

993
00:40:42,770 --> 00:40:40,320
part of this first but

994
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,780
the first people to get to us was a

995
00:40:47,390 --> 00:40:44,400
security Response Team back up alert

996
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:47,400
team and it was a sergeant Garza

997
00:40:51,230 --> 00:40:49,440
and uh he got out of the vehicle he

998
00:40:53,270 --> 00:40:51,240
parked about 20 yards away he got out of

999
00:40:56,089 --> 00:40:53,280
the vehicle and walked towards us he he

1000
00:40:57,950 --> 00:40:56,099
had his weapon on

1001
00:40:59,390 --> 00:40:57,960
and I stepped out of the vehicle and I

1002
00:41:00,770 --> 00:40:59,400
walked toward him and I said he goes

1003
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,780
stay right there Mario stay right there

1004
00:41:04,670 --> 00:41:02,400
he said are you okay I said I'm okay but

1005
00:41:06,410 --> 00:41:04,680
my Michael Johnson's not and none of us

1006
00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:06,420
really knew Michael Johnson as I said he

1007
00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:08,520
was working vacation relief he was from

1008
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:10,140
another flight

1009
00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:13,200
he's normally under the 66 area down by

1010
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,720
the Badlands but vacation relief they

1011
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:17,040
send you anywhere they want where

1012
00:41:23,390 --> 00:41:19,380
there's a vacancy

1013
00:41:25,550 --> 00:41:23,400
so I said man what happened because all

1014
00:41:27,470 --> 00:41:25,560
I'm worried about is we didn't strike

1015
00:41:29,210 --> 00:41:27,480
that site we didn't we didn't perform

1016
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:29,220
what we were supposed to do on that

1017
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:30,960
facility I knew there was trouble from

1018
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:32,960
that because it was an important alarm

1019
00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:35,760
and that can't be left undone somebody

1020
00:41:40,370 --> 00:41:37,740
had to go on that site

1021
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,380
and uh

1022
00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:42,240
he said I can't talk to you about that

1023
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,640
Mario we're just here to take you and

1024
00:41:49,130 --> 00:41:47,280
him back in November control

1025
00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:49,140
I said okay I said I need some help

1026
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:51,060
moving him I said he is frozen to the

1027
00:41:54,589 --> 00:41:52,560
steering wheel I said he won't talk or

1028
00:41:56,810 --> 00:41:54,599
anything I said he's breathing and he

1029
00:41:58,730 --> 00:41:56,820
didn't really know what to say when I

1030
00:42:00,290 --> 00:41:58,740
told him that but he helped me move him

1031
00:42:01,730 --> 00:42:00,300
over and I put him in the passenger seat

1032
00:42:04,130 --> 00:42:01,740
and I drove

1033
00:42:06,109 --> 00:42:04,140
we went back to November 1.

1034
00:42:08,589 --> 00:42:06,119
we'll come to find out we're on the back

1035
00:42:11,630 --> 00:42:08,599
side of November Lake

1036
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:11,640
Reservoir Dam

1037
00:42:16,490 --> 00:42:13,560
and the other thing was the vehicle was

1038
00:42:18,530 --> 00:42:16,500
pointing to the South

1039
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:18,540
uh which would be the lower part of that

1040
00:42:23,569 --> 00:42:21,119
screen where those two white dots of

1041
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:23,579
snow are now that's a holding Reserve

1042
00:42:30,770 --> 00:42:26,960
down there in case that Dam overflows

1043
00:42:33,829 --> 00:42:30,780
in the upper part of that

1044
00:42:35,150 --> 00:42:33,839
damn the slew is on the far end there at

1045
00:42:37,310 --> 00:42:35,160
the very bottom

1046
00:42:38,810 --> 00:42:37,320
and that's where they release water when

1047
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:38,820
this thing when this thing is full I

1048
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,079
don't know how deep it is I don't think

1049
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:42,000
it's that deep it's just a big Reservoir

1050
00:42:44,990 --> 00:42:44,220
you know a new that's just a reservoir

1051
00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:45,000
down

1052
00:42:49,550 --> 00:42:47,640
but um

1053
00:42:51,530 --> 00:42:49,560
that's what the white wall was and it

1054
00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:51,540
was covered in snow

1055
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:53,160
didn't know that we were down at the

1056
00:42:56,089 --> 00:42:54,599
very center of it now had Michael

1057
00:42:58,190 --> 00:42:56,099
Johnson

1058
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:58,200
been okay and stepped out of that

1059
00:43:02,510 --> 00:42:59,760
vehicle this is the weird part about it

1060
00:43:04,670 --> 00:43:02,520
these are only two-wheel drive vehicles

1061
00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:04,680
there was no way to drive down in there

1062
00:43:09,290 --> 00:43:07,380
and turn around and in face South which

1063
00:43:11,329 --> 00:43:09,300
is where we were facing

1064
00:43:13,609 --> 00:43:11,339
because there was really not a road what

1065
00:43:15,530 --> 00:43:13,619
we were sitting on that's why Sergeant

1066
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:15,540
guard is a parked 20 yards away he

1067
00:43:20,990 --> 00:43:18,000
parked up at an area where he you know

1068
00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:21,000
he you could access and do it safely but

1069
00:43:24,290 --> 00:43:22,680
had Michael Johnson stepped out of the

1070
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:24,300
vehicle on the driver's side he'd have

1071
00:43:28,130 --> 00:43:25,800
taken two steps and he had gone down

1072
00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:28,140
about 30 feet into that little holding

1073
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:31,260
Reservoir down there and that was a big

1074
00:43:35,089 --> 00:43:32,880
lake it's like well I was just out there

1075
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:35,099
I mean it was it was sizable I said well

1076
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:36,960
I didn't have no idea that it was that

1077
00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:37,920
large

1078
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:39,720
you could have driven right in there by

1079
00:43:44,329 --> 00:43:42,000
accident too well you couldn't turn

1080
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:44,339
around though I mean we were facing the

1081
00:43:48,890 --> 00:43:45,839
only direction that you could travel in

1082
00:43:50,390 --> 00:43:48,900
to get out of there hmm that that's

1083
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,400
that's what I'm trying to say there was

1084
00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:52,800
no way to drive in there and turn around

1085
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:54,540
and come back out

1086
00:43:58,670 --> 00:43:56,700
where we were located it's almost like

1087
00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:58,680
you backed in

1088
00:44:02,750 --> 00:44:00,900
I don't think we backed it all there

1089
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:02,760
were no tracks as far as I know going in

1090
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:03,599
there

1091
00:44:12,829 --> 00:44:10,800
wow

1092
00:44:14,630 --> 00:44:12,839
so we went to number one from that point

1093
00:44:17,210 --> 00:44:14,640
and got back to the launch control

1094
00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:17,220
facility whereas there was a lot of

1095
00:44:20,569 --> 00:44:19,020
people waiting on us when we got there a

1096
00:44:21,890 --> 00:44:20,579
flight Chief assistant flight Chief

1097
00:44:25,069 --> 00:44:21,900
there was some other law enforcement

1098
00:44:29,089 --> 00:44:25,079
personnel there uh

1099
00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:29,099
all the backup alert teams were there

1100
00:44:34,849 --> 00:44:32,760
um the officers that were off duty now

1101
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:34,859
as and were on duty while they

1102
00:44:38,750 --> 00:44:37,680
dispatched us were talking to us asking

1103
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,760
questions

1104
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:40,560
and uh they didn't talk to us they

1105
00:44:44,510 --> 00:44:41,940
talked to me because they took Michael

1106
00:44:46,010 --> 00:44:44,520
Johnson in the back room to see if they

1107
00:44:47,569 --> 00:44:46,020
couldn't do something medically for him

1108
00:44:48,710 --> 00:44:47,579
and I don't know if flight Chief kind of

1109
00:44:50,089 --> 00:44:48,720
or not the flight Chief but the

1110
00:44:52,250 --> 00:44:50,099
assistant flight Chief and the site

1111
00:44:54,349 --> 00:44:52,260
manager kind of took care of him now I

1112
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:54,359
don't know what what medical

1113
00:44:58,430 --> 00:44:56,400
stuff they did or maybe some smelling

1114
00:45:01,130 --> 00:44:58,440
sauce or something but he never talked

1115
00:45:03,770 --> 00:45:01,140
again he didn't ever speak again at from

1116
00:45:06,589 --> 00:45:03,780
the time we left November 1 that night

1117
00:45:08,809 --> 00:45:06,599
up to Highway 79. when he said whatever

1118
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:08,819
was the last thing he uttered before six

1119
00:45:13,450 --> 00:45:11,040
o'clock the next morning or whatever the

1120
00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:13,460
next morning to anybody if he did

1121
00:45:19,370 --> 00:45:17,160
so they separated us and I just I was so

1122
00:45:21,650 --> 00:45:19,380
talked out and trying to explain what I

1123
00:45:22,970 --> 00:45:21,660
had seen

1124
00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:22,980
and there was a lot of communication

1125
00:45:28,130 --> 00:45:25,200
going on back at Ellsworth uh to

1126
00:45:30,109 --> 00:45:28,140
November control I remember that and I

1127
00:45:31,790 --> 00:45:30,119
wasn't privy to listen to a lot of it I

1128
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,800
don't know I was I was hoping maybe I

1129
00:45:35,690 --> 00:45:33,359
heard something about radar or anything

1130
00:45:38,089 --> 00:45:35,700
like that but I didn't

1131
00:45:40,250 --> 00:45:38,099
and um I just wanted to get away from

1132
00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:40,260
everybody and this was the strangest

1133
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:42,480
thing I I I knew I said I'm gonna I

1134
00:45:47,630 --> 00:45:44,640
gotta go to the restroom didn't have to

1135
00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:47,640
I just wanted to and I went in it was

1136
00:45:54,290 --> 00:45:50,520
two stalls there and uh

1137
00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:54,300
I went in there and I just sat down on a

1138
00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:58,910
and just trying to get my thoughts and

1139
00:46:03,890 --> 00:46:00,960
just breathe you know just think about

1140
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:03,900
what had happened and and the void or

1141
00:46:07,970 --> 00:46:06,000
something or whatever I felt I I it's

1142
00:46:11,950 --> 00:46:07,980
very difficult to explain when you can't

1143
00:46:14,329 --> 00:46:11,960
account for for time or you know

1144
00:46:15,470 --> 00:46:14,339
something like that something like that

1145
00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:15,480
but

1146
00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:17,460
foreign

1147
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:20,460
something tripped in me I don't know

1148
00:46:24,530 --> 00:46:22,800
what but I felt all of a sudden

1149
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:24,540
lightheaded

1150
00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:26,760
and then I felt as if

1151
00:46:32,569 --> 00:46:30,900
I thought I was dying I I um I started I

1152
00:46:34,730 --> 00:46:32,579
started to leave my body

1153
00:46:37,010 --> 00:46:34,740
and I was going down through my body to

1154
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:37,020
my I knew I was going through my feet if

1155
00:46:42,170 --> 00:46:39,839
that makes any sense which I don't I

1156
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:42,180
don't know anything about that but I

1157
00:46:45,530 --> 00:46:43,680
just felt as if I was going down through

1158
00:46:46,849 --> 00:46:45,540
my body and I was I was going to leave

1159
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:46,859
my body

1160
00:46:51,170 --> 00:46:49,200
and really I'd almost

1161
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:51,180
you know giving up on the fact that

1162
00:46:56,750 --> 00:46:53,520
there was no way I could stop it and I

1163
00:46:58,130 --> 00:46:56,760
and I just opened my eyes a little bit I

1164
00:47:01,730 --> 00:46:58,140
heard something

1165
00:47:04,130 --> 00:47:01,740
and I saw four furry legs four Furry

1166
00:47:05,150 --> 00:47:04,140
Paws on the floor in front of the stall

1167
00:47:07,069 --> 00:47:05,160
door

1168
00:47:08,569 --> 00:47:07,079
which belonged to a German Shepherd Drug

1169
00:47:10,430 --> 00:47:08,579
dog

1170
00:47:13,550 --> 00:47:10,440
and then behind them was a set of

1171
00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:13,560
Cochran shiny spit polished boots which

1172
00:47:17,930 --> 00:47:15,180
was a law enforcement guy that I knew

1173
00:47:20,089 --> 00:47:17,940
from Ellsworth and uh and I said hey man

1174
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:20,099
how you doing he goes hey Mario we're

1175
00:47:23,630 --> 00:47:21,900
all right and I said my ditty bags out

1176
00:47:25,730 --> 00:47:23,640
there he said we already checked it

1177
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:25,740
you're good are you all right and I said

1178
00:47:30,410 --> 00:47:27,420
I don't know what I am man

1179
00:47:32,329 --> 00:47:30,420
I don't know who that was but uh

1180
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,339
anyway

1181
00:47:36,710 --> 00:47:34,079
I said I'll be out in a minute and I'll

1182
00:47:38,809 --> 00:47:36,720
wash my face really good and just try to

1183
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:38,819
gather myself and when I went back out

1184
00:47:42,050 --> 00:47:40,079
to the day room

1185
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:42,060
uh

1186
00:47:48,829 --> 00:47:45,839
going to go to proceed back to Ellsworth

1187
00:47:50,809 --> 00:47:48,839
we were relieved and so we gathered up

1188
00:47:51,829 --> 00:47:50,819
all of our stuff which was in the day

1189
00:47:53,329 --> 00:47:51,839
room

1190
00:47:54,890 --> 00:47:53,339
I don't even think I took it out of the

1191
00:47:56,030 --> 00:47:54,900
vehicle but somebody didn't put it in

1192
00:47:58,250 --> 00:47:56,040
the day room

1193
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:58,260
and uh

1194
00:48:02,809 --> 00:48:00,000
so I got in a vehicle with him and

1195
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,819
Michael Johnson was taken by two by the

1196
00:48:06,349 --> 00:48:04,079
assistant flight Chief and I think

1197
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:06,359
somebody else wrote with him and we were

1198
00:48:10,609 --> 00:48:08,400
all taken back to the main base which

1199
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:10,619
you know was over an hour ride so I got

1200
00:48:13,609 --> 00:48:12,240
to talk you know Sergeant great he just

1201
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:13,619
asked me all kinds of things and I told

1202
00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:14,640
him everything that I knew and

1203
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:16,680
everything that I saw and he was an

1204
00:48:21,470 --> 00:48:19,740
Alabama boy I remember that and he uh

1205
00:48:23,690 --> 00:48:21,480
he just he didn't even know what to

1206
00:48:25,970 --> 00:48:23,700
think he just you know I mean these

1207
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:25,980
supervisors they go through a lot they

1208
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:27,900
hear everything from everybody all walks

1209
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,000
of life at all times and I think this

1210
00:48:33,770 --> 00:48:31,920
pretty much did him in he was a big guy

1211
00:48:36,109 --> 00:48:33,780
too he's really a nice guy

1212
00:48:37,670 --> 00:48:36,119
and um

1213
00:48:39,530 --> 00:48:37,680
so he said we're gonna you know we're

1214
00:48:41,450 --> 00:48:39,540
gonna the commander wants to talk to you

1215
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:41,460
Colonel's breaker and

1216
00:48:46,550 --> 00:48:43,920
that kind of thing and I said yes sir

1217
00:48:48,109 --> 00:48:46,560
you know I expected all that so he said

1218
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:48,119
can you can you write a report and I

1219
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:50,400
said of course I can you know so it was

1220
00:48:53,630 --> 00:48:51,720
entries made on the security police

1221
00:48:55,069 --> 00:48:53,640
blotter I know that

1222
00:48:57,890 --> 00:48:55,079
um at the site

1223
00:48:59,930 --> 00:48:57,900
at at November 1 which was a security

1224
00:49:01,730 --> 00:48:59,940
police blotters all actions everything

1225
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:01,740
had taken place you know on a facility

1226
00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:04,079
that's annotated even your social

1227
00:49:07,490 --> 00:49:06,180
security numbers on those blotters so I

1228
00:49:12,349 --> 00:49:07,500
wish I could get hold of one of those

1229
00:49:17,150 --> 00:49:14,930
which would give me information to find

1230
00:49:20,510 --> 00:49:17,160
Michael Johnson been looking for for

1231
00:49:22,370 --> 00:49:20,520
many many years and substantial monies

1232
00:49:24,589 --> 00:49:22,380
have been spent and try to find trying

1233
00:49:27,890 --> 00:49:24,599
to find him with investigators nothing

1234
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:27,900
bad just trying to locate him all media

1235
00:49:32,569 --> 00:49:29,640
platforms social platforms anything

1236
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:32,579
together we served platform anything I

1237
00:49:41,569 --> 00:49:39,589
looking for him but so get back to the

1238
00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:41,579
base and we go to the main sateaf

1239
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:43,800
building which is a converted uh

1240
00:49:48,589 --> 00:49:46,260
aircraft Hangar from World War II as I

1241
00:49:50,270 --> 00:49:48,599
guess they they had bombers in there at

1242
00:49:52,010 --> 00:49:50,280
one time and that was our Security

1243
00:49:53,450 --> 00:49:52,020
Police Operations Center where law

1244
00:49:57,530 --> 00:49:53,460
enforcement security social security

1245
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:57,540
control and all all the officers uh head

1246
00:50:02,329 --> 00:50:01,680
offices and uh OSI was there

1247
00:50:04,970 --> 00:50:02,339
um

1248
00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:04,980
there was a man in a suit and my

1249
00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:07,020
commander I'm not sure if it's the

1250
00:50:11,089 --> 00:50:08,460
assistant based Commander or possibly

1251
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:11,099
the base commander I can't remember uh

1252
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:13,260
there were probably it there were

1253
00:50:16,930 --> 00:50:15,359
probably seven people in that office

1254
00:50:20,510 --> 00:50:16,940
when I went I was only introduced

1255
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:20,520
basically to terms breaker now or just I

1256
00:50:24,530 --> 00:50:22,079
made myself available to Colonel's

1257
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:24,540
Breakers you know I reported to so I had

1258
00:50:29,870 --> 00:50:26,940
to do that formally and uh then he had

1259
00:50:31,370 --> 00:50:29,880
asked me to sit down and he wanted me to

1260
00:50:32,990 --> 00:50:31,380
be at ease to talk about what had

1261
00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:33,000
happened and I tried to my best to

1262
00:50:35,930 --> 00:50:34,380
explain it to him

1263
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:35,940
and um

1264
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:38,400
and everybody in the room now there was

1265
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:40,440
a young OSI guy there

1266
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:42,240
I mean Richard Dodie who's been on

1267
00:50:47,210 --> 00:50:44,760
several different things and he was in

1268
00:50:49,309 --> 00:50:47,220
training I understand in OSI

1269
00:50:50,990 --> 00:50:49,319
and uh I've been trying to make contact

1270
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:51,000
with him for a long time too because he

1271
00:50:55,309 --> 00:50:52,680
was at my debrief

1272
00:50:56,930 --> 00:50:55,319
uh Not only was he there but he also

1273
00:50:59,809 --> 00:50:56,940
went over to the flight surgeon's office

1274
00:51:01,370 --> 00:50:59,819
where I was later examined but my

1275
00:51:04,010 --> 00:51:01,380
debrief took about three and a half to

1276
00:51:05,450 --> 00:51:04,020
four hours and within that time I was

1277
00:51:07,069 --> 00:51:05,460
asked every single question that they

1278
00:51:09,710 --> 00:51:07,079
could come up with and what I thought it

1279
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:09,720
was what I saw what I didn't see so they

1280
00:51:13,069 --> 00:51:10,559
said

1281
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:13,079
or how I felt about what I saw in the

1282
00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:14,880
Mike and Michael Johnson how well that I

1283
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:17,700
know him uh did I know what I knew about

1284
00:51:23,329 --> 00:51:20,400
him I mean they really were diving deep

1285
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,339
into you know how much I knew about

1286
00:51:27,290 --> 00:51:25,200
Michael Johnson which was nothing

1287
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:27,300
literally nothing I mean we had met at

1288
00:51:31,849 --> 00:51:29,520
six we we met on the bus ride out there

1289
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:31,859
you know school bus rides out there they

1290
00:51:34,970 --> 00:51:33,660
had dark blue buses they took took us

1291
00:51:36,950 --> 00:51:34,980
out in you know

1292
00:51:38,990 --> 00:51:36,960
um so

1293
00:51:41,150 --> 00:51:39,000
excuse me but uh

1294
00:51:43,130 --> 00:51:41,160
I didn't know anything about him he said

1295
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:43,140
he was from Chicago Illinois I did know

1296
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:45,119
that or he said he was

1297
00:51:51,230 --> 00:51:47,520
and um

1298
00:51:52,849 --> 00:51:51,240
so I did a uh a formal report uh I can't

1299
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:52,859
remember the report number I thought it

1300
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:55,440
was a 1000 but we we found out that

1301
00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:57,119
wasn't the case that's different that's

1302
00:52:00,109 --> 00:51:58,140
a different report number because

1303
00:52:01,970 --> 00:52:00,119
everything's got a form number and I

1304
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:01,980
know I did this because it had to be

1305
00:52:07,370 --> 00:52:05,040
done with a number two skillcraft pin

1306
00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:07,380
and it was in triplicates so I print

1307
00:52:10,849 --> 00:52:10,470
really well and I print real small and

1308
00:52:11,750 --> 00:52:10,859
[Music]

1309
00:52:14,390 --> 00:52:11,760
um

1310
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:14,400
I remember taking a long long long time

1311
00:52:18,130 --> 00:52:16,079
to write down every single thing that I

1312
00:52:22,130 --> 00:52:18,140
could recollect in my mind now I did not

1313
00:52:23,569 --> 00:52:22,140
say what I saw out the East out of this

1314
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:23,579
side of my window

1315
00:52:27,170 --> 00:52:25,440
because you know there's there's certain

1316
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:27,180
things you know when you have a secret

1317
00:52:32,329 --> 00:52:29,119
or top secret clearance

1318
00:52:34,670 --> 00:52:32,339
you know you can't uh at that particular

1319
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:34,680
time in 1977 regardless of what was

1320
00:52:38,390 --> 00:52:36,000
going on out there with Academy

1321
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:38,400
relations or other sightings and so

1322
00:52:42,829 --> 00:52:41,040
forth you could not say well I I happen

1323
00:52:45,530 --> 00:52:42,839
to see some little guys out here on the

1324
00:52:47,809 --> 00:52:45,540
you know outside of my window so you

1325
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,819
didn't tell you didn't tell anyone that

1326
00:52:51,770 --> 00:52:49,680
all right we're going to take just just

1327
00:52:54,410 --> 00:52:51,780
a quick break uh just for just a second

1328
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:54,420
just to say goodbye to everyone over at

1329
00:53:00,170 --> 00:52:57,839
uh kgra radio and again we'll be back uh

1330
00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:00,180
with Grant camera next week thank you

1331
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:02,160
over there and thank you Bill

1332
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:03,839
um so but we're going to continue we're

1333
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:05,520
going to uh go into some of the

1334
00:53:08,690 --> 00:53:06,960
questions

1335
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:08,700
um again if you would put those in caps

1336
00:53:13,730 --> 00:53:10,559
uh we're going to be doing that as we

1337
00:53:16,370 --> 00:53:13,740
move along here but uh but but go ahead

1338
00:53:21,470 --> 00:53:16,380
and continue if you would

1339
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:23,210
that lasted about three and a half to

1340
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:26,400
four hours and that whole debrief and

1341
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:29,839
then uh Colonel spraker uh once he was

1342
00:53:35,150 --> 00:53:33,119
satisfied somewhat and he asked another

1343
00:53:36,829 --> 00:53:35,160
officer a couple of questions but not

1344
00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:36,839
with me being able to hear it kind of

1345
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:38,940
like shielding his mouth and talking

1346
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,520
over his right shoulder and over his

1347
00:53:45,710 --> 00:53:43,200
right shoulder was a was a gentleman

1348
00:53:48,770 --> 00:53:45,720
that was in a suit and a and a hat he

1349
00:53:53,510 --> 00:53:48,780
wasn't very tall and on his right was

1350
00:53:56,690 --> 00:53:53,520
OSI an officer a captain and then this

1351
00:53:58,190 --> 00:53:56,700
Richard Dodie was a young NCO he was

1352
00:54:01,490 --> 00:53:58,200
standing to his right

1353
00:54:02,809 --> 00:54:01,500
and uh wearing glasses I I looked right

1354
00:54:05,450 --> 00:54:02,819
at him and I thought I've seen you I've

1355
00:54:06,829 --> 00:54:05,460
seen you on his base you know I I uh I

1356
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:06,839
guess he was kind of new or something I

1357
00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:07,920
don't know but

1358
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:09,900
uh there were 800 security policemen on

1359
00:54:13,970 --> 00:54:11,520
on Ellsworth Air Force Base at that

1360
00:54:16,730 --> 00:54:13,980
particular time and uh

1361
00:54:17,870 --> 00:54:16,740
many many different things happened uh

1362
00:54:20,569 --> 00:54:17,880
to a lot of people in all these

1363
00:54:22,190 --> 00:54:20,579
different areas in these missiles or on

1364
00:54:24,950 --> 00:54:22,200
these missile sites but

1365
00:54:27,770 --> 00:54:24,960
anyway so from there I was taken to um

1366
00:54:31,309 --> 00:54:27,780
the flight surgeon's office whether it

1367
00:54:33,290 --> 00:54:31,319
was a doctor uh another guy uh I don't

1368
00:54:34,670 --> 00:54:33,300
know if he was another doctor it was a

1369
00:54:35,390 --> 00:54:34,680
nurse

1370
00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:35,400
um

1371
00:54:42,170 --> 00:54:37,260
OSI

1372
00:54:47,089 --> 00:54:44,109
there were five people there

1373
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:47,099
and uh the doc the main doc the other

1374
00:54:50,990 --> 00:54:48,960
dog one of them just kind of stood back

1375
00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:51,000
and this this other doctor he checked my

1376
00:54:56,750 --> 00:54:54,540
ears eyes nose throat pulse heartbeat

1377
00:54:58,370 --> 00:54:56,760
everything and you know was talking to

1378
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:58,380
me did the finger thing in front of my

1379
00:55:03,710 --> 00:55:01,920
eyes that kind of thing uh reflexes you

1380
00:55:05,150 --> 00:55:03,720
know asked me how I felt and I told him

1381
00:55:07,010 --> 00:55:05,160
of my incident you know in the bathroom

1382
00:55:09,890 --> 00:55:07,020
and how I felt and he he didn't really

1383
00:55:11,089 --> 00:55:09,900
comment on that and uh at the very end

1384
00:55:13,069 --> 00:55:11,099
of all of it

1385
00:55:15,530 --> 00:55:13,079
he looked at my teeth too looked at my

1386
00:55:17,170 --> 00:55:15,540
teeth and gums I remember that and uh

1387
00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:17,180
which I thought was weird

1388
00:55:21,410 --> 00:55:19,140
and uh

1389
00:55:23,390 --> 00:55:21,420
he goes I need to he said I need to take

1390
00:55:26,089 --> 00:55:23,400
a couple of skin samples from you and uh

1391
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:26,099
and uh I just kind of sat back and I

1392
00:55:29,750 --> 00:55:27,780
said because I'm sitting up on this end

1393
00:55:31,490 --> 00:55:29,760
of this table you know and I I said

1394
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:31,500
excuse me he goes I need to take a skin

1395
00:55:38,210 --> 00:55:34,380
sample two skin samples

1396
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:38,220
and I said uh why and he goes well

1397
00:55:43,490 --> 00:55:41,280
you're sunburned yeah I went what he

1398
00:55:44,930 --> 00:55:43,500
goes your face is burned and your hand

1399
00:55:47,450 --> 00:55:44,940
is burned

1400
00:55:49,370 --> 00:55:47,460
and I looked and I didn't really think

1401
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:49,380
about it but when I tapped my skin like

1402
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:50,640
a sunburn

1403
00:55:55,250 --> 00:55:53,040
I could feel it and then I can feel my

1404
00:55:57,890 --> 00:55:55,260
face so here on the right side above my

1405
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:57,900
eye he took he took one or two pinches

1406
00:56:03,230 --> 00:56:00,480
of skin just enough to cause blood to

1407
00:56:04,730 --> 00:56:03,240
flow and just put a small Band-Aid on it

1408
00:56:07,309 --> 00:56:04,740
and he did the same thing on the back of

1409
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,319
my right hand and uh I never got the

1410
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,079
results of any of that and never

1411
00:56:15,710 --> 00:56:13,200
I don't even have the paperwork from the

1412
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:15,720
actual um examination would you think it

1413
00:56:19,549 --> 00:56:18,240
was radiation I mean that's the only

1414
00:56:21,049 --> 00:56:19,559
thing that would make sense I mean

1415
00:56:22,790 --> 00:56:21,059
you're in the winter in South Dakota I

1416
00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:22,800
mean yeah my first time back to Tampa

1417
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:25,020
Florida my home I um I went to

1418
00:56:28,910 --> 00:56:26,760
Clearwater Beach and fell asleep and

1419
00:56:31,849 --> 00:56:28,920
almost got an Article 15 because I got

1420
00:56:34,790 --> 00:56:31,859
smoked on the beach and had to go to

1421
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:34,800
MacDill for help I got burned up pretty

1422
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,200
bad but um yeah that was that was really

1423
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:39,839
strange and uh

1424
00:56:45,770 --> 00:56:42,660
uh you know this weirdest part was you

1425
00:56:48,849 --> 00:56:45,780
know I was married at the time and um

1426
00:56:51,530 --> 00:56:48,859
uh I couldn't I couldn't uh explain this

1427
00:56:53,450 --> 00:56:51,540
uh and first of all I'd only been out

1428
00:56:55,010 --> 00:56:53,460
one day so normally I'd be gone for

1429
00:56:56,569 --> 00:56:55,020
three days and then be off for three

1430
00:56:58,370 --> 00:56:56,579
days but

1431
00:56:59,690 --> 00:56:58,380
um when I when I was told I could call

1432
00:57:01,549 --> 00:56:59,700
my wife it was right around three

1433
00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:01,559
o'clock in the afternoon in the evening

1434
00:57:03,950 --> 00:57:02,880
that then

1435
00:57:13,849 --> 00:57:03,960
and

1436
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:13,859
because I was I was told you know I

1437
00:57:18,530 --> 00:57:16,319
signed what I signed as a non-disclosure

1438
00:57:20,510 --> 00:57:18,540
agreement that I would not discuss this

1439
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:20,520
in any way that this this was classified

1440
00:57:26,210 --> 00:57:22,319
and

1441
00:57:28,130 --> 00:57:26,220
classify top secret but I didn't sign

1442
00:57:30,530 --> 00:57:28,140
any com you know top secret document I

1443
00:57:33,349 --> 00:57:30,540
just signed a letter saying I would not

1444
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:33,359
discuss this with anyone in including

1445
00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:35,280
family or whatever members I remember

1446
00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:38,160
that and I signed it and printed my name

1447
00:57:44,450 --> 00:57:41,520
and my social security number and

1448
00:57:46,730 --> 00:57:44,460
my security police badge number j4292.

1449
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,740
so uh but you feel comfortable talking

1450
00:57:50,750 --> 00:57:48,720
about it now I don't have a clearance

1451
00:57:53,809 --> 00:57:50,760
any longer I see it was for clearance

1452
00:57:54,829 --> 00:57:53,819
yeah right and uh in 83 when I got out I

1453
00:57:56,390 --> 00:57:54,839
went to work for the United States

1454
00:58:00,049 --> 00:57:56,400
Department of energy

1455
00:58:01,849 --> 00:58:00,059
and as a security inspector and um so

1456
00:58:04,970 --> 00:58:01,859
with the Q clearance which is above

1457
00:58:07,250 --> 00:58:04,980
secret uh I certainly couldn't talk

1458
00:58:09,650 --> 00:58:07,260
about it and I did not

1459
00:58:11,690 --> 00:58:09,660
and um but I was questioned about it

1460
00:58:13,309 --> 00:58:11,700
heavily a couple of different times and

1461
00:58:16,609 --> 00:58:13,319
it took me eight months to obtain my

1462
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:16,619
first clearance and then uh your bra

1463
00:58:23,450 --> 00:58:19,920
before a board three to five people from

1464
00:58:27,410 --> 00:58:23,460
the Oak Ridge office and uh they in turn

1465
00:58:33,950 --> 00:58:30,829
hmm and so so they they kind of trick

1466
00:58:36,289 --> 00:58:33,960
you in to things they try to see if

1467
00:58:37,490 --> 00:58:36,299
you'll divulge what you sign saying you

1468
00:58:40,010 --> 00:58:37,500
would not

1469
00:58:42,410 --> 00:58:40,020
uh you do then they negate your acute

1470
00:58:43,789 --> 00:58:42,420
clearance or the year put on a casual

1471
00:58:44,750 --> 00:58:43,799
type of

1472
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:44,760
uh

1473
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:47,280
clearance where you can't really do your

1474
00:58:50,809 --> 00:58:49,020
job because you're under PRP and

1475
00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:50,819
everything else a first responder and

1476
00:58:55,549 --> 00:58:53,940
what have you so if you give up bad you

1477
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:55,559
know what else would you give up if you

1478
00:59:01,730 --> 00:58:58,319
had to so who's the first person you

1479
00:59:01,740 --> 00:59:08,990
foreign

1480
00:59:12,589 --> 00:59:10,730
a counselor

1481
00:59:14,990 --> 00:59:12,599
uh-huh

1482
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:15,000
and that was probably uh

1483
00:59:16,490 --> 00:59:16,240
19

1484
00:59:18,049 --> 00:59:16,500
[Music]

1485
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:18,059
um

1486
00:59:25,069 --> 00:59:23,040
97 98 yeah yeah so all that time you

1487
00:59:26,809 --> 00:59:25,079
kept it to yourself that was a long time

1488
00:59:28,670 --> 00:59:26,819
to keep it to yourself yeah something

1489
00:59:30,289 --> 00:59:28,680
that yeah I did have contact with

1490
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:30,299
Michael Johnson two weeks after the

1491
00:59:33,289 --> 00:59:32,160
incident he came to my apartment in

1492
00:59:35,210 --> 00:59:33,299
Rapid City

1493
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,220
how he found out where I live I don't

1494
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:37,200
know lived I don't know so what was that

1495
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:38,880
like well it was it was really

1496
00:59:41,870 --> 00:59:40,559
interesting because it was a couple of

1497
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:41,880
things that uh

1498
00:59:49,010 --> 00:59:45,599
that was uh profound I must say so he

1499
00:59:51,530 --> 00:59:49,020
came in and uh he knocked on my door

1500
00:59:52,609 --> 00:59:51,540
and uh I answered the door and I I

1501
00:59:54,410 --> 00:59:52,619
opened it I couldn't believe it was him

1502
00:59:56,930 --> 00:59:54,420
I said Michael Johnson I said how you

1503
00:59:59,510 --> 00:59:56,940
doing man he goes I had to come find you

1504
01:00:00,829 --> 00:59:59,520
and I said well I I said I'm glad you

1505
01:00:03,170 --> 01:00:00,839
did I said I've been wanting to talk to

1506
01:00:04,609 --> 01:00:03,180
you I had no idea where you were or how

1507
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:04,619
to contact you

1508
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,200
and uh he said somebody somebody had

1509
01:00:11,210 --> 01:00:09,599
told him where I lived and uh which was

1510
01:00:12,890 --> 01:00:11,220
downtown in Rapid City Haynes Way

1511
01:00:15,770 --> 01:00:12,900
Apartments

1512
01:00:17,930 --> 01:00:15,780
so when he came in I introduced him to

1513
01:00:21,650 --> 01:00:17,940
my wife

1514
01:00:23,809 --> 01:00:21,660
and I I just kind of said you know we

1515
01:00:25,730 --> 01:00:23,819
saw something together

1516
01:00:27,470 --> 01:00:25,740
and we haven't seen each other since it

1517
01:00:28,730 --> 01:00:27,480
happened and it was traumatic and she

1518
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:28,740
knew it was because she knew something

1519
01:00:33,530 --> 01:00:31,200
was going on with me and um

1520
01:00:34,490 --> 01:00:33,540
and uh and I still didn't divulge what

1521
01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:34,500
it was

1522
01:00:40,430 --> 01:00:36,480
but uh

1523
01:00:42,349 --> 01:00:40,440
anyway he went I put him over by my sofa

1524
01:00:44,930 --> 01:00:42,359
and a coffee table and I went to the

1525
01:00:47,210 --> 01:00:44,940
dining room table and I said with paper

1526
01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:47,220
in pencil and I said I want you to draw

1527
01:00:53,329 --> 01:00:49,260
what you saw and I'm going to draw what

1528
01:00:54,829 --> 01:00:53,339
I saw and we did that good idea he saw

1529
01:00:56,809 --> 01:00:54,839
that craft

1530
01:01:03,470 --> 01:00:56,819
um

1531
01:01:05,329 --> 01:01:03,480
and we were very similar in many of the

1532
01:01:07,250 --> 01:01:05,339
visuals that we both witnessed together

1533
01:01:10,849 --> 01:01:07,260
that night even though I thought he was

1534
01:01:13,849 --> 01:01:10,859
incoherent but he wasn't hmm

1535
01:01:16,309 --> 01:01:13,859
both of us recollect and really it

1536
01:01:18,589 --> 01:01:16,319
wasn't in it was really strange because

1537
01:01:22,370 --> 01:01:18,599
we both heard the words in our bodies do

1538
01:01:25,250 --> 01:01:22,380
not fear we want fear really over and

1539
01:01:27,170 --> 01:01:25,260
over again and it it wasn't as if

1540
01:01:30,410 --> 01:01:27,180
somebody was talking like you and I are

1541
01:01:34,190 --> 01:01:30,420
it was inside my body in in his body too

1542
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:34,200
do not fear do not fear

1543
01:01:38,809 --> 01:01:37,200
all you can do is fear you you don't

1544
01:01:42,829 --> 01:01:38,819
know anything but fear because you can't

1545
01:01:45,349 --> 01:01:42,839
understand what it is hmm

1546
01:01:47,630 --> 01:01:45,359
anyway he stayed for about an hour and

1547
01:01:50,210 --> 01:01:47,640
we talked about it and of course I from

1548
01:01:52,190 --> 01:01:50,220
that point then I had to

1549
01:01:54,170 --> 01:01:52,200
I asked him and I asked him a question

1550
01:01:57,530 --> 01:01:54,180
it's kind of strange I'm up to that

1551
01:01:59,390 --> 01:01:57,540
point you know I've I always um

1552
01:02:02,210 --> 01:01:59,400
I'll play tennis and I did all kind of

1553
01:02:04,430 --> 01:02:02,220
stuff and then I still did but um

1554
01:02:06,950 --> 01:02:04,440
I became so interested in pyramid

1555
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,960
structures I don't know how to explain

1556
01:02:11,329 --> 01:02:08,400
that

1557
01:02:13,130 --> 01:02:11,339
uh I had to draw him and read about him

1558
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:13,140
and find out every dadgum thing I could

1559
01:02:16,849 --> 01:02:14,640
find out about I'm still due to this day

1560
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:16,859
for what reason I don't know but there's

1561
01:02:21,470 --> 01:02:19,200
something I had to find out about and

1562
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:21,480
I'm and I still researched them today so

1563
01:02:25,849 --> 01:02:22,559
I'm kind of like a shoestring

1564
01:02:28,190 --> 01:02:25,859
archaeologist in my own way you know

1565
01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:28,200
something that I just do and yeah

1566
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:30,180
they're all over the world yeah it's

1567
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:32,160
pretty amazing and it's all in the same

1568
01:02:38,569 --> 01:02:34,559
33rd parallel thing you know it's it's

1569
01:02:38,579 --> 01:02:41,329
foreign

1570
01:02:46,130 --> 01:02:44,150
that whole incident just um

1571
01:02:48,349 --> 01:02:46,140
it never goes away

1572
01:02:50,089 --> 01:02:48,359
and it's a

1573
01:02:51,470 --> 01:02:50,099
it's always there

1574
01:02:54,829 --> 01:02:51,480
the other thing that Michael Johnson

1575
01:03:00,829 --> 01:02:57,829
this just blows me away

1576
01:03:03,010 --> 01:03:00,839
he goes I saw one a year ago I saw your

1577
01:03:06,530 --> 01:03:03,020
glove on the floor

1578
01:03:08,450 --> 01:03:06,540
and uh you know I at that particular

1579
01:03:10,730 --> 01:03:08,460
point you know my ditty bag was you know

1580
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:10,740
it's a it's a ready bag it's really

1581
01:03:14,809 --> 01:03:12,720
large you can put anything on that thing

1582
01:03:16,730 --> 01:03:14,819
you could carry 300 pounds in it if you

1583
01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:16,740
want to so it's got all of our cold

1584
01:03:22,010 --> 01:03:19,200
weather gear in it our underwear our

1585
01:03:23,870 --> 01:03:22,020
our our all of our toiletries you just

1586
01:03:25,250 --> 01:03:23,880
carry everything you have to have for

1587
01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:25,260
these three days out in the field you

1588
01:03:29,030 --> 01:03:26,940
literally live out of that bag all your

1589
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:29,040
clothes everything

1590
01:03:33,170 --> 01:03:31,200
and uh

1591
01:03:36,069 --> 01:03:33,180
he goes I saw one of your one of your

1592
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:36,079
gloves meaning my mittens on the floor

1593
01:03:41,690 --> 01:03:38,880
and I said what floor what floor Michael

1594
01:03:46,370 --> 01:03:41,700
here in my bag he goes no on a shiny

1595
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:49,789
I said really he said yeah I said wait a

1596
01:03:53,390 --> 01:03:51,359
minute so I ran in my bedroom and I

1597
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:53,400
grabbed that ditty bag which the only

1598
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:56,160
thing it was minus was dirty clothes and

1599
01:03:59,450 --> 01:03:57,599
I brought it out on the couch or he was

1600
01:04:03,890 --> 01:03:59,460
sitting and I just opened it up and I

1601
01:04:09,170 --> 01:04:06,289
all my items were there and accounted

1602
01:04:10,789 --> 01:04:09,180
for except my right hand glove

1603
01:04:12,829 --> 01:04:10,799
it was gone

1604
01:04:14,990 --> 01:04:12,839
and I did he see that on the floor

1605
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,000
because I don't know where it went and a

1606
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,280
pilot a B-52 bomber pilot gave me those

1607
01:04:21,230 --> 01:04:19,440
gloves and they were kind of cherished

1608
01:04:23,630 --> 01:04:21,240
items to me when I first got there that

1609
01:04:24,410 --> 01:04:23,640
they were cool mittens you know I mean

1610
01:04:28,490 --> 01:04:24,420
they

1611
01:04:31,490 --> 01:04:28,500
special gloves

1612
01:04:33,230 --> 01:04:31,500
and uh that just shocked me that that

1613
01:04:35,150 --> 01:04:33,240
glove was gone but yet he remembered

1614
01:04:37,250 --> 01:04:35,160
seeing it on a shiny floor

1615
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:37,260
so I was thinking it could be a craft

1616
01:04:42,109 --> 01:04:38,760
possibly

1617
01:04:44,569 --> 01:04:42,119
well or something like that it was left

1618
01:04:46,430 --> 01:04:44,579
on the floor and it had a fur back and

1619
01:04:48,470 --> 01:04:46,440
it was like yellow kangaroo skin on the

1620
01:04:50,030 --> 01:04:48,480
three on the three finger side

1621
01:04:51,770 --> 01:04:50,040
I think this finger's free for the

1622
01:04:54,109 --> 01:04:51,780
operation of your weapon and you open

1623
01:04:55,789 --> 01:04:54,119
your trigger guard on your weapon so you

1624
01:04:57,890 --> 01:04:55,799
can use your one finger and they come up

1625
01:05:00,530 --> 01:04:57,900
they come up to about right here and

1626
01:05:02,569 --> 01:05:00,540
they fasten into onto your parka you

1627
01:05:05,329 --> 01:05:02,579
know so they're you know you get 50

1628
01:05:08,690 --> 01:05:05,339
below zero you need something you've got

1629
01:05:11,210 --> 01:05:08,700
to have them you know yeah so

1630
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:11,220
that really set me back when he told me

1631
01:05:14,210 --> 01:05:12,960
that and then we did that Discovery

1632
01:05:16,609 --> 01:05:14,220
together

1633
01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:16,619
and so I got his information where he

1634
01:05:20,750 --> 01:05:17,400
lived

1635
01:05:22,190 --> 01:05:20,760
uh his parents home and that's he said

1636
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:22,200
Chicago Illinois

1637
01:05:26,690 --> 01:05:24,480
and I had it in my Bible of course I you

1638
01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:26,700
know I went overseas not long after that

1639
01:05:31,490 --> 01:05:29,280
everything kind of changed concerning

1640
01:05:33,230 --> 01:05:31,500
the Air Force after that for me

1641
01:05:35,809 --> 01:05:33,240
um

1642
01:05:37,849 --> 01:05:35,819
meaning eight months later I was uh I

1643
01:05:40,130 --> 01:05:37,859
got an assignment goes on everybody's

1644
01:05:42,530 --> 01:05:40,140
career I was sent remote

1645
01:05:44,990 --> 01:05:42,540
and I could have selected a two-year

1646
01:05:47,329 --> 01:05:45,000
tour which I tried to and I could have

1647
01:05:48,770 --> 01:05:47,339
taken her with me but um that wasn't my

1648
01:05:50,150 --> 01:05:48,780
commander Colonel sprecker said no you

1649
01:05:51,530 --> 01:05:50,160
can't do that you're going you got to go

1650
01:05:53,870 --> 01:05:51,540
remote

1651
01:05:56,210 --> 01:05:53,880
which means by yourself so

1652
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:56,220
that's what I did

1653
01:05:59,690 --> 01:05:57,839
and um

1654
01:06:01,609 --> 01:05:59,700
much was okay it was all right supposed

1655
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,619
to be

1656
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,119
um

1657
01:06:09,170 --> 01:06:05,760
and uh just everything changed it really

1658
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:09,180
did everything so was that a lot of this

1659
01:06:15,950 --> 01:06:12,960
change happened because of this incident

1660
01:06:17,630 --> 01:06:15,960
and I did have an inside I did have a

1661
01:06:20,349 --> 01:06:17,640
you remember when that movie Close

1662
01:06:22,789 --> 01:06:20,359
Encounters of the Third yeah

1663
01:06:25,069 --> 01:06:22,799
well I've been hearing about it and it

1664
01:06:26,270 --> 01:06:25,079
came out in 77 I don't know the exact

1665
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:26,280
time but

1666
01:06:31,549 --> 01:06:29,760
anyway I went there and we went together

1667
01:06:35,569 --> 01:06:31,559
and um

1668
01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:35,579
that part where uh uh Roy neri's at the

1669
01:06:39,289 --> 01:06:37,380
mailbox scene after these objects are

1670
01:06:42,770 --> 01:06:39,299
have been seen in the atmosphere you

1671
01:06:44,450 --> 01:06:42,780
know light powers out and all this stuff

1672
01:06:45,829 --> 01:06:44,460
he's sitting by the mailbox and he's got

1673
01:06:47,150 --> 01:06:45,839
that flashlight in his mouth and he's

1674
01:06:49,490 --> 01:06:47,160
looking at a map

1675
01:06:50,569 --> 01:06:49,500
and it still shakes me up today if I see

1676
01:06:53,329 --> 01:06:50,579
that but

1677
01:06:55,130 --> 01:06:53,339
uh

1678
01:06:58,490 --> 01:06:55,140
that light appears in his rear window

1679
01:07:00,950 --> 01:06:58,500
and it gets extremely bright

1680
01:07:04,849 --> 01:07:00,960
as it did that night for us

1681
01:07:07,849 --> 01:07:06,470
it looks as if the atmosphere is being

1682
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:07,859
pulled out of that truck but something

1683
01:07:11,450 --> 01:07:09,359
else is happening to him and I don't

1684
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,460
know why like he's being maybe shocked

1685
01:07:14,990 --> 01:07:13,680
mildly or something I mean just the

1686
01:07:16,609 --> 01:07:15,000
expressions of an actor of what he's

1687
01:07:19,849 --> 01:07:16,619
doing I mean he just there was

1688
01:07:22,190 --> 01:07:19,859
similarities there I felt and mailbox is

1689
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:22,200
shaking I never saw that but you know or

1690
01:07:25,730 --> 01:07:23,520
anything like that but just the the

1691
01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:25,740
incident itself there was some similar

1692
01:07:30,170 --> 01:07:28,260
stuff to it and it upset me so much in

1693
01:07:33,170 --> 01:07:30,180
the theater I didn't see the Indian of

1694
01:07:34,870 --> 01:07:33,180
it I got up and left because I just said

1695
01:07:37,849 --> 01:07:34,880
and I didn't see it to a later time

1696
01:07:39,710 --> 01:07:37,859
because of that and then of course I was

1697
01:07:41,870 --> 01:07:39,720
asked Well why'd you get up so upset and

1698
01:07:43,010 --> 01:07:41,880
I I just I really didn't want to go into

1699
01:07:45,829 --> 01:07:43,020
that with her

1700
01:07:48,430 --> 01:07:45,839
so but I it was it was maybe a year

1701
01:07:51,410 --> 01:07:48,440
later when I finally saw it

1702
01:07:52,490 --> 01:07:51,420
maybe I think I was in Tampa Florida or

1703
01:07:54,589 --> 01:07:52,500
something I don't even I don't even know

1704
01:07:56,270 --> 01:07:54,599
at that time at that point but well

1705
01:07:58,549 --> 01:07:56,280
Spielberg certainly did a lot of

1706
01:08:01,609 --> 01:07:58,559
research and talked to a lot of you know

1707
01:08:03,470 --> 01:08:01,619
UFO researchers about encounters and so

1708
01:08:05,930 --> 01:08:03,480
we had a lot of things you know that

1709
01:08:08,930 --> 01:08:05,940
were pretty uh I would do I want to say

1710
01:08:10,430 --> 01:08:08,940
accurate but uh a lot of things that

1711
01:08:13,970 --> 01:08:10,440
were accurate to what people have

1712
01:08:16,189 --> 01:08:13,980
discussed over the years right so yeah I

1713
01:08:18,590 --> 01:08:16,199
mean I can see why I would make

1714
01:08:22,249 --> 01:08:18,600
um you know that impact

1715
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:22,259
um so it was really something how he uh

1716
01:08:27,470 --> 01:08:24,960
how he centered on Devil's Tower the

1717
01:08:28,970 --> 01:08:27,480
shape of Devil's Tower which could be a

1718
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:28,980
pyramid I don't know if that's

1719
01:08:32,990 --> 01:08:30,719
similarities there but

1720
01:08:34,970 --> 01:08:33,000
I'm telling you that that pyramid thing

1721
01:08:37,610 --> 01:08:34,980
burned into my mind for some reason I

1722
01:08:40,010 --> 01:08:37,620
have no idea why or what but

1723
01:08:42,410 --> 01:08:40,020
that's never gone away well you never

1724
01:08:44,510 --> 01:08:42,420
know you may be on to something you

1725
01:08:46,490 --> 01:08:44,520
never know uh so I'm going to pop up a

1726
01:08:48,410 --> 01:08:46,500
couple of questions here do you think it

1727
01:08:50,470 --> 01:08:48,420
was a my lab military abduction or

1728
01:08:59,689 --> 01:08:50,480
extraterrestrial

1729
01:09:02,689 --> 01:08:59,699
uh yeah I mean by the discussion of the

1730
01:09:04,970 --> 01:09:02,699
what you saw as far as the creatures go

1731
01:09:07,669 --> 01:09:04,980
it certainly wouldn't be

1732
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:07,679
anything would you say that drawing on

1733
01:09:11,689 --> 01:09:09,359
pop putting that up and it'll be in the

1734
01:09:13,070 --> 01:09:11,699
show Notes too uh the drawing that you

1735
01:09:15,709 --> 01:09:13,080
did would you say that was pretty

1736
01:09:18,349 --> 01:09:15,719
accurate for like the eyes and and uh

1737
01:09:20,329 --> 01:09:18,359
yeah yeah the heads are a little bit not

1738
01:09:23,209 --> 01:09:20,339
quite shaped like that I mean I'm not a

1739
01:09:26,030 --> 01:09:23,219
good artist and uh and were they flesh

1740
01:09:27,769 --> 01:09:26,040
tone that from what you can remember uh

1741
01:09:30,169 --> 01:09:27,779
no they were more bluish than they

1742
01:09:32,990 --> 01:09:30,179
looking back they had that they had that

1743
01:09:35,030 --> 01:09:33,000
night gray blue tint to them if that's

1744
01:09:36,050 --> 01:09:35,040
the proper word I tried to capture it

1745
01:09:38,930 --> 01:09:36,060
there but

1746
01:09:40,490 --> 01:09:38,940
this is not quite what I wanted either

1747
01:09:42,769 --> 01:09:40,500
and they were wearing some type of

1748
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:42,779
uniform or something to look like yes

1749
01:09:48,950 --> 01:09:45,839
yeah yeah I never understand why I see

1750
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:48,960
people I see pictures or

1751
01:09:53,570 --> 01:09:51,359
drawings and these and these beings have

1752
01:09:56,689 --> 01:09:53,580
no clothes on what what is that who

1753
01:10:00,530 --> 01:09:56,699
comes up with that I don't get that

1754
01:10:02,990 --> 01:10:00,540
yeah well they travel next they travel a

1755
01:10:04,550 --> 01:10:03,000
craft Across the Universe through a

1756
01:10:08,270 --> 01:10:04,560
wormhole or whatever and they come here

1757
01:10:11,330 --> 01:10:08,280
naked are you kidding me no I'm sorry

1758
01:10:13,010 --> 01:10:11,340
anyway and and how did your uh someone

1759
01:10:15,290 --> 01:10:13,020
posted a question here but I'm not going

1760
01:10:17,150 --> 01:10:15,300
to put it up because of some of the

1761
01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:17,160
question is a little bit sensitive but

1762
01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:19,199
another part of it is

1763
01:10:24,770 --> 01:10:22,560
um how did your spouse uh react to

1764
01:10:27,590 --> 01:10:24,780
disclosing this

1765
01:10:30,709 --> 01:10:27,600
incident

1766
01:10:32,450 --> 01:10:30,719
I don't think she believed me uh I

1767
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:32,460
really don't I don't know if she ever

1768
01:10:41,810 --> 01:10:39,950
uh let's see here's another question

1769
01:10:43,430 --> 01:10:41,820
here do you know if these facilities

1770
01:10:45,550 --> 01:10:43,440
would have been equipped with closed

1771
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:45,560
circuit cameras back in

1772
01:10:51,350 --> 01:10:48,300
1977. uh no they were not they were not

1773
01:10:53,209 --> 01:10:51,360
not a launch facility perhaps um

1774
01:10:56,570 --> 01:10:53,219
Cheyenne Mountain and some of those

1775
01:10:58,850 --> 01:10:56,580
places were but not a launch facility I

1776
01:11:01,570 --> 01:10:58,860
mean there were 150 of them 150

1777
01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:01,580
Minuteman missile sites just at um

1778
01:11:07,669 --> 01:11:04,320
Ellsworth alone

1779
01:11:10,370 --> 01:11:07,679
um and these were remote sites uh they

1780
01:11:13,310 --> 01:11:10,380
had the power to do that but with the

1781
01:11:14,870 --> 01:11:13,320
arrays of alarms and sensors and so

1782
01:11:16,550 --> 01:11:14,880
forth that were these sites were

1783
01:11:19,189 --> 01:11:16,560
equipped but they never they didn't do

1784
01:11:20,330 --> 01:11:19,199
that I don't have the capability to be

1785
01:11:21,610 --> 01:11:20,340
honest with you

1786
01:11:24,590 --> 01:11:21,620
yeah yeah

1787
01:11:26,750 --> 01:11:24,600
it spread out so many miles I think this

1788
01:11:28,850 --> 01:11:26,760
is a good question from Greg Gardner do

1789
01:11:32,649 --> 01:11:28,860
you feel it's been therapeutic talking

1790
01:11:40,669 --> 01:11:36,169
you know a lot of times it affects me in

1791
01:11:41,810 --> 01:11:40,679
different ways uh it's all to me it's

1792
01:11:46,130 --> 01:11:41,820
how much

1793
01:11:52,450 --> 01:11:49,310
for instance going to November 5 with

1794
01:11:54,830 --> 01:11:52,460
Discovery plus I just about passed out

1795
01:11:57,290 --> 01:11:54,840
standing in front of that site and I and

1796
01:11:59,570 --> 01:11:57,300
and really the show The Producers didn't

1797
01:12:01,669 --> 01:11:59,580
want to get on the site or in front of

1798
01:12:03,530 --> 01:12:01,679
the site because there's a cattle

1799
01:12:05,149 --> 01:12:03,540
processing facility on it now just a

1800
01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:05,159
just a metal building but it's nice

1801
01:12:07,910 --> 01:12:06,000
looking

1802
01:12:09,770 --> 01:12:07,920
you know the ranchers took over these

1803
01:12:12,890 --> 01:12:09,780
these these properties where these

1804
01:12:15,110 --> 01:12:12,900
facilities were uh decommissioned and

1805
01:12:18,709 --> 01:12:15,120
they were built so well that they

1806
01:12:20,209 --> 01:12:18,719
the the rock that they used on the

1807
01:12:22,970 --> 01:12:20,219
facilities and the fencing are still

1808
01:12:25,250 --> 01:12:22,980
there so they they put their feed and

1809
01:12:27,770 --> 01:12:25,260
all kind of stuff there and and it keeps

1810
01:12:29,570 --> 01:12:27,780
it dry but standing in that missile site

1811
01:12:31,550 --> 01:12:29,580
that I mean I felt as if they were going

1812
01:12:33,950 --> 01:12:31,560
to pop out of the sky right in front of

1813
01:12:35,810 --> 01:12:33,960
me for some reason I mean really it it

1814
01:12:38,330 --> 01:12:35,820
took me

1815
01:12:41,030 --> 01:12:38,340
quite a while to gather my thoughts and

1816
01:12:44,709 --> 01:12:41,040
my feelings and control my emotions to

1817
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:44,719
stand on that very spot where I hmm

1818
01:12:49,070 --> 01:12:47,520
pulled myself up on the truck on that

1819
01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:49,080
windowsill of that truck

1820
01:12:52,729 --> 01:12:51,840
did you ever feel like going uh back

1821
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:52,739
there

1822
01:12:57,050 --> 01:12:55,440
to check it out while you were on the on

1823
01:12:59,810 --> 01:12:57,060
the base

1824
01:13:01,970 --> 01:12:59,820
afterwards I did

1825
01:13:04,010 --> 01:13:01,980
you go there did you go there or did you

1826
01:13:05,990 --> 01:13:04,020
think about it no I went by I went by

1827
01:13:07,610 --> 01:13:06,000
there several times but that Amber went

1828
01:13:09,350 --> 01:13:07,620
back to November one they sent me to

1829
01:13:11,390 --> 01:13:09,360
kilo control which was the command

1830
01:13:13,250 --> 01:13:11,400
center for the 68th area

1831
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:13,260
so I was with the supervisor and

1832
01:13:17,270 --> 01:13:15,840
assistant and and flight a flight Chief

1833
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:17,280
and assistant flight Chief at all times

1834
01:13:25,970 --> 01:13:23,330
and that's kind of bothered me you know

1835
01:13:27,950 --> 01:13:25,980
I thought well sure you know I felt I

1836
01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:27,960
was being I was really being checked at

1837
01:13:32,090 --> 01:13:30,600
all points for everything and there was

1838
01:13:34,850 --> 01:13:32,100
an investigator out there from Denver

1839
01:13:37,490 --> 01:13:34,860
she was investigating Academy relations

1840
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:37,500
Linda Moulton house oh yeah and I'd seen

1841
01:13:41,810 --> 01:13:40,080
her on the news several times now my

1842
01:13:43,970 --> 01:13:41,820
partner and I was a guy named Mark Wade

1843
01:13:45,530 --> 01:13:43,980
I worked with and uh we had the same

1844
01:13:46,850 --> 01:13:45,540
initials and he was a great guy and I

1845
01:13:48,229 --> 01:13:46,860
talked to him several times since then

1846
01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:48,239
but I don't have contact with him any

1847
01:13:54,649 --> 01:13:51,840
longer and we witnessed Academy Elation

1848
01:13:58,250 --> 01:13:54,659
um I think it was one of the kilo sites

1849
01:14:00,649 --> 01:13:58,260
and uh it was about a mile from the site

1850
01:14:02,209 --> 01:14:00,659
itself where we had been camping we had

1851
01:14:03,950 --> 01:14:02,219
to camp on the site one night waiting

1852
01:14:05,750 --> 01:14:03,960
for a maintenance team the next day

1853
01:14:07,430 --> 01:14:05,760
and um because that's what happened they

1854
01:14:09,649 --> 01:14:07,440
couldn't reset an alarm you stayed there

1855
01:14:10,970 --> 01:14:09,659
until a maintenance team came out and a

1856
01:14:12,290 --> 01:14:10,980
camper alert team would come out and

1857
01:14:14,030 --> 01:14:12,300
relieve you and you go back to your

1858
01:14:15,470 --> 01:14:14,040
launch control facility

1859
01:14:17,149 --> 01:14:15,480
and uh

1860
01:14:20,570 --> 01:14:17,159
anyway they were there were two dead

1861
01:14:23,570 --> 01:14:20,580
cattle and when we went back by there

1862
01:14:25,790 --> 01:14:23,580
we didn't see anything but we went past

1863
01:14:27,590 --> 01:14:25,800
the site past the corner area where this

1864
01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:27,600
Corral was

1865
01:14:31,729 --> 01:14:29,100
there are a bunch of Law Enforcement

1866
01:14:33,709 --> 01:14:31,739
Officers some uh maybe some fire fire

1867
01:14:34,669 --> 01:14:33,719
prevention Personnel or Volunteer Fire

1868
01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:34,679
Department

1869
01:14:38,990 --> 01:14:37,440
and um in law enforcement and they were

1870
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:39,000
all in a couple of veterinarians they

1871
01:14:42,830 --> 01:14:40,320
were they were looking at these cattle

1872
01:14:44,270 --> 01:14:42,840
that had been mutilated and it was

1873
01:14:45,410 --> 01:14:44,280
really strange we got out and looked at

1874
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:45,420
them and they asked if we saw anything

1875
01:14:48,530 --> 01:14:47,040
because we told them we were we were on

1876
01:14:50,270 --> 01:14:48,540
that missile site all night long and

1877
01:14:52,630 --> 01:14:50,280
they and we told them we didn't see

1878
01:14:58,250 --> 01:14:55,189
interesting anyway she was out there and

1879
01:15:00,050 --> 01:14:58,260
we were told it's funny how I guess

1880
01:15:02,750 --> 01:15:00,060
these Base information officers they

1881
01:15:05,390 --> 01:15:02,760
pick up on things like this

1882
01:15:08,510 --> 01:15:05,400
and they put out they put out these

1883
01:15:10,669 --> 01:15:08,520
these memorandums or whatever you you we

1884
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:10,679
were they were they're ready guard mount

1885
01:15:14,510 --> 01:15:12,420
to us any of these briefings and so

1886
01:15:15,950 --> 01:15:14,520
forth before we dispatch into the field

1887
01:15:18,110 --> 01:15:15,960
as a flight

1888
01:15:20,870 --> 01:15:18,120
and they say you know if anybody

1889
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:20,880
you know these things were going on UFO

1890
01:15:23,810 --> 01:15:22,260
sightings were happening all the way

1891
01:15:25,490 --> 01:15:23,820
down under the Badlands they were

1892
01:15:26,810 --> 01:15:25,500
happening at Minot they were happening

1893
01:15:29,590 --> 01:15:26,820
at Maelstrom they were happening

1894
01:15:32,510 --> 01:15:29,600
Cheyenne or Fe Warren

1895
01:15:35,090 --> 01:15:32,520
you're not to you're not to engage any

1896
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:35,100
media Personnel or anybody like that who

1897
01:15:39,229 --> 01:15:37,440
was that it was a newspaper from New

1898
01:15:40,910 --> 01:15:39,239
York um

1899
01:15:49,370 --> 01:15:40,920
uh

1900
01:15:51,790 --> 01:15:49,380
I don't know if it was that or or one

1901
01:15:53,930 --> 01:15:51,800
that writes up all kind of

1902
01:15:54,890 --> 01:15:53,940
felonious things about people I don't

1903
01:15:57,229 --> 01:15:54,900
know

1904
01:15:59,330 --> 01:15:57,239
anyway uh you're not to talk to any

1905
01:16:01,370 --> 01:15:59,340
reporters TV reporters looking at any

1906
01:16:03,290 --> 01:16:01,380
cattle or any sightings or anything like

1907
01:16:07,810 --> 01:16:03,300
that to anyone you're first I'll refer

1908
01:16:10,090 --> 01:16:07,820
them all to the base information officer

1909
01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:10,100
report it to us

1910
01:16:15,830 --> 01:16:13,199
so it was well known it was it was going

1911
01:16:18,050 --> 01:16:15,840
on and and continued to go on and of

1912
01:16:19,910 --> 01:16:18,060
course I was circumvented by only

1913
01:16:23,510 --> 01:16:19,920
staying another eight or nine months and

1914
01:16:25,610 --> 01:16:23,520
then uh left for overseas base

1915
01:16:28,010 --> 01:16:25,620
and she did I think Ellsworth was

1916
01:16:29,770 --> 01:16:28,020
decommissioned and it was at 81 I can't

1917
01:16:32,990 --> 01:16:29,780
remember now I don't know

1918
01:16:35,090 --> 01:16:33,000
all the missiles uh not the base was was

1919
01:16:37,550 --> 01:16:35,100
not decommissioned just the just the

1920
01:16:38,689 --> 01:16:37,560
missile Wing was so all those mental

1921
01:16:40,610 --> 01:16:38,699
sites and all those launch control

1922
01:16:43,189 --> 01:16:40,620
facilities are still there they're just

1923
01:16:46,850 --> 01:16:43,199
decommissioned yeah there's no weapon

1924
01:16:48,410 --> 01:16:46,860
inside I'm sure right right yeah so that

1925
01:16:50,810 --> 01:16:48,420
night that particular night this

1926
01:16:52,490 --> 01:16:50,820
incident happened

1927
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:52,500
um it was uh it was an alarm that

1928
01:16:57,890 --> 01:16:55,280
something had breached the perimeter

1929
01:16:59,930 --> 01:16:57,900
inner and outer inner and outer

1930
01:17:03,290 --> 01:16:59,940
perimeter which was the antenna array

1931
01:17:06,050 --> 01:17:03,300
and a and another underground uh alarm

1932
01:17:08,630 --> 01:17:06,060
which which uh designated a situation

1933
01:17:10,669 --> 01:17:08,640
four which meant something not only

1934
01:17:12,530 --> 01:17:10,679
penetrated the alarm array above ground

1935
01:17:16,130 --> 01:17:12,540
but something penetrated sensors under

1936
01:17:17,689 --> 01:17:16,140
the ground Chase so you all of a sudden

1937
01:17:20,149 --> 01:17:17,699
you and

1938
01:17:24,110 --> 01:17:20,159
um Michael Is It Michael all of a sudden

1939
01:17:25,910 --> 01:17:24,120
just disappear from there yeah what did

1940
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:25,920
they do what is what do they do back at

1941
01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:28,320
the base I mean they got to cover this

1942
01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:31,440
situation right they have to report uh

1943
01:17:35,930 --> 01:17:33,360
what's happening so what happened after

1944
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:35,940
that after you were missing

1945
01:17:39,890 --> 01:17:38,400
well I really don't know well I mean we

1946
01:17:42,590 --> 01:17:39,900
were completely out of pocket for the

1947
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:42,600
next five hours and so they had to send

1948
01:17:47,630 --> 01:17:45,360
a backup alert team to that site to see

1949
01:17:50,270 --> 01:17:47,640
what happened they had to send people

1950
01:17:52,490 --> 01:17:50,280
looking for us now one of the most

1951
01:17:55,610 --> 01:17:52,500
fascinating things is that during the

1952
01:17:57,770 --> 01:17:55,620
discovery plus uh

1953
01:18:00,050 --> 01:17:57,780
Journey out there

1954
01:18:02,209 --> 01:18:00,060
a bunch of people came out on the Ormond

1955
01:18:03,350 --> 01:18:02,219
Road it looked like an interstate on a

1956
01:18:04,669 --> 01:18:03,360
dirt road while we were out there

1957
01:18:06,590 --> 01:18:04,679
filming they didn't know what was going

1958
01:18:08,570 --> 01:18:06,600
on and of course they had questions and

1959
01:18:11,450 --> 01:18:08,580
some people were talking you know from

1960
01:18:13,790 --> 01:18:11,460
the filming people and uh but two guys

1961
01:18:16,370 --> 01:18:13,800
kind of hung behind one was on a

1962
01:18:18,950 --> 01:18:16,380
four-wheeler and the other was in a

1963
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:18,960
enclosed like Rhino or something like

1964
01:18:26,750 --> 01:18:19,920
that

1965
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:26,760
Rhino he owned like 20 20 30 000 Acres

1966
01:18:30,709 --> 01:18:29,040
back there Court back toward bear or no

1967
01:18:31,970 --> 01:18:30,719
toward Castle Rock which is a little bit

1968
01:18:34,970 --> 01:18:31,980
further north

1969
01:18:37,970 --> 01:18:34,980
and then the guy that was um on a

1970
01:18:39,830 --> 01:18:37,980
regular four-wheeler uh he owned a bunch

1971
01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:39,840
of property and he was from Newell now

1972
01:18:47,870 --> 01:18:43,760
he was a deputy sheriff he was probably

1973
01:18:49,970 --> 01:18:47,880
66 67 my age but he was a deputy sheriff

1974
01:18:53,090 --> 01:18:49,980
a young deputy sheriff in Sturgis South

1975
01:18:55,130 --> 01:18:53,100
Dakota which is about 29 miles south of

1976
01:18:57,709 --> 01:18:55,140
Newell South Dakota

1977
01:18:59,649 --> 01:18:57,719
so what he told us was that Wing

1978
01:19:02,090 --> 01:18:59,659
security control

1979
01:19:06,229 --> 01:19:02,100
contacted state

1980
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:06,239
officials in Sturgis and Newell to

1981
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:08,400
search for us we never I never knew any

1982
01:19:14,209 --> 01:19:11,280
of this and then this fellow was in the

1983
01:19:16,550 --> 01:19:14,219
enclosed Rhino he he said that his

1984
01:19:19,250 --> 01:19:16,560
father was a State Trooper at the time

1985
01:19:20,750 --> 01:19:19,260
and he remembers the call that his

1986
01:19:23,990 --> 01:19:20,760
father got at two o'clock in the morning

1987
01:19:26,510 --> 01:19:24,000
to come search for us and his question

1988
01:19:29,450 --> 01:19:26,520
to whoever he was speaking with back at

1989
01:19:31,189 --> 01:19:29,460
Ellsworth then he overheard him he said

1990
01:19:33,169 --> 01:19:31,199
well why am I going to go look for them

1991
01:19:35,950 --> 01:19:33,179
they're equipped better than I am to

1992
01:19:38,390 --> 01:19:35,960
handle any situation which we were

1993
01:19:41,030 --> 01:19:38,400
so we had these other law enforcement

1994
01:19:43,850 --> 01:19:41,040
Personnel looking for us plus our own

1995
01:19:46,790 --> 01:19:43,860
backup alert teams and art armed

1996
01:19:48,890 --> 01:19:46,800
response teams looking for us so it was

1997
01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:48,900
three Security Police patrols that's

1998
01:19:53,450 --> 01:19:51,600
that's six security police officers and

1999
01:19:56,870 --> 01:19:53,460
at least two

2000
01:19:59,270 --> 01:19:56,880
uh Deputy sheriffs and a state patrolman

2001
01:20:02,510 --> 01:19:59,280
looking for us all at the same time

2002
01:20:05,390 --> 01:20:02,520
now the state trooper this guy told and

2003
01:20:06,649 --> 01:20:05,400
we've got his name and so forth he told

2004
01:20:10,910 --> 01:20:06,659
um

2005
01:20:12,050 --> 01:20:10,920
whoever is he reported to at Ellsworth

2006
01:20:14,030 --> 01:20:12,060
that he saw

2007
01:20:16,189 --> 01:20:14,040
some strange lights in the sky he didn't

2008
01:20:17,810 --> 01:20:16,199
expound on any of that and then that's

2009
01:20:19,550 --> 01:20:17,820
what this fellow told us that his father

2010
01:20:22,490 --> 01:20:19,560
saw some strange lies in this guy and he

2011
01:20:23,990 --> 01:20:22,500
reported it to the people at Ellsworth I

2012
01:20:26,810 --> 01:20:24,000
don't know if anything was ever on radar

2013
01:20:29,090 --> 01:20:26,820
I never was privy to any of that so I

2014
01:20:30,950 --> 01:20:29,100
really honestly don't know but I never

2015
01:20:33,770 --> 01:20:30,960
knew those people were looking for us

2016
01:20:36,470 --> 01:20:33,780
too until I went out there with

2017
01:20:39,229 --> 01:20:36,480
Discovery plus people uh why that's

2018
01:20:41,209 --> 01:20:39,239
something now I'm sure that they were on

2019
01:20:44,870 --> 01:20:41,219
the radio with you that entire time

2020
01:20:47,870 --> 01:20:44,880
trying to be and you were most likely

2021
01:20:50,810 --> 01:20:47,880
both unconscious or at least not

2022
01:20:53,330 --> 01:20:50,820
reactionary to what was going on

2023
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:53,340
um so the the question here in chat it

2024
01:20:57,770 --> 01:20:54,960
I'm going to kind of expand on a little

2025
01:20:59,930 --> 01:20:57,780
bit they're asking if your clothing was

2026
01:21:01,610 --> 01:20:59,940
put on weird after the event and what

2027
01:21:02,830 --> 01:21:01,620
they're getting at was was there any

2028
01:21:05,050 --> 01:21:02,840
type of

2029
01:21:09,470 --> 01:21:05,060
signs of

2030
01:21:11,870 --> 01:21:09,480
disruption like you may have been taken

2031
01:21:14,750 --> 01:21:11,880
in any type of way

2032
01:21:17,450 --> 01:21:14,760
like clothing or anything else I know

2033
01:21:19,250 --> 01:21:17,460
you mentioned the glove but uh

2034
01:21:21,229 --> 01:21:19,260
but was there anything else that made

2035
01:21:22,669 --> 01:21:21,239
you suspicious when you thought about it

2036
01:21:25,610 --> 01:21:22,679
later

2037
01:21:28,010 --> 01:21:25,620
well I have two marks on my body

2038
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:28,020
um both on the left side of my body

2039
01:21:33,110 --> 01:21:30,960
and um don't know where they came from I

2040
01:21:34,430 --> 01:21:33,120
never remember any injuries there or

2041
01:21:38,470 --> 01:21:34,440
anything like that

2042
01:21:40,970 --> 01:21:38,480
and uh one is under my left arm here

2043
01:21:43,970 --> 01:21:40,980
it's under here I've got pictures of it

2044
01:21:46,610 --> 01:21:43,980
close up it's a scoop Mark and then on

2045
01:21:49,070 --> 01:21:46,620
my inner left ankle in the same area

2046
01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:49,080
behind my ankle bone which have been

2047
01:21:55,610 --> 01:21:52,800
looked at and I I asked uh a few doctors

2048
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:55,620
that I know and one that I go to had he

2049
01:22:02,630 --> 01:21:59,360
ever what would these be in a medical

2050
01:22:03,950 --> 01:22:02,640
emergency which I've never really had

2051
01:22:06,830 --> 01:22:03,960
um

2052
01:22:08,330 --> 01:22:06,840
I never had an emergency being in an

2053
01:22:09,950 --> 01:22:08,340
accident or car accident or something

2054
01:22:11,689 --> 01:22:09,960
like that where I was

2055
01:22:13,729 --> 01:22:11,699
transported by ambulance or anything

2056
01:22:15,530 --> 01:22:13,739
like that but um

2057
01:22:17,510 --> 01:22:15,540
he said there was no known medical

2058
01:22:20,689 --> 01:22:17,520
procedure that he could think of why

2059
01:22:22,790 --> 01:22:20,699
anyone or why these areas would be

2060
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:22,800
penetrated with anything to either draw

2061
01:22:26,990 --> 01:22:24,239
blood or

2062
01:22:28,370 --> 01:22:27,000
or whatever they were meant to do he

2063
01:22:31,310 --> 01:22:28,380
said he that that made no sense

2064
01:22:33,470 --> 01:22:31,320
whatsoever but they're identical to each

2065
01:22:35,390 --> 01:22:33,480
other I mean in close-up photography

2066
01:22:37,550 --> 01:22:35,400
which we've done which is really I've

2067
01:22:41,090 --> 01:22:37,560
got pictures of it I can see uh that

2068
01:22:43,790 --> 01:22:41,100
right there right I just found this yeah

2069
01:22:46,430 --> 01:22:43,800
so that was uh the mark and when did how

2070
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,440
soon afterwards did you discover this

2071
01:22:50,570 --> 01:22:48,719
I don't know maybe a year year and a

2072
01:22:52,250 --> 01:22:50,580
half I never I never knew it and then

2073
01:22:55,189 --> 01:22:52,260
the one on the inside of my ankle I I I

2074
01:22:57,290 --> 01:22:55,199
don't looks exactly like that it's crazy

2075
01:22:59,390 --> 01:22:57,300
yeah yeah

2076
01:23:01,070 --> 01:22:59,400
wow okay

2077
01:23:04,189 --> 01:23:01,080
um so if someone want to know here would

2078
01:23:05,870 --> 01:23:04,199
you be interested in hypnotherapy to

2079
01:23:08,330 --> 01:23:05,880
help remember the incident have you

2080
01:23:11,330 --> 01:23:08,340
thought about that regression I've done

2081
01:23:12,770 --> 01:23:11,340
that twice you have done it yeah and and

2082
01:23:15,530 --> 01:23:12,780
how did that go

2083
01:23:21,110 --> 01:23:15,540
uh well actually the first time

2084
01:23:23,050 --> 01:23:21,120
um a uh very credible mufon uh hypnotist

2085
01:23:28,250 --> 01:23:23,060
investigator

2086
01:23:31,510 --> 01:23:28,260
uh hypnotize me and um

2087
01:23:33,130 --> 01:23:31,520
uh I know during during the uh

2088
01:23:37,370 --> 01:23:33,140
hypnosis

2089
01:23:39,470 --> 01:23:37,380
I I really got uh kind of away from

2090
01:23:41,209 --> 01:23:39,480
myself or something I I don't know but I

2091
01:23:43,790 --> 01:23:41,219
remember several things that I'd never

2092
01:23:46,669 --> 01:23:43,800
seen before or knew before

2093
01:23:50,450 --> 01:23:46,679
and uh it put me in AFib

2094
01:23:53,390 --> 01:23:50,460
and oh my God yeah wow and I had to be I

2095
01:23:55,550 --> 01:23:53,400
had to go get the shocks and um and I

2096
01:23:57,590 --> 01:23:55,560
went in afib again a week later and it

2097
01:24:01,250 --> 01:23:57,600
was funny because

2098
01:24:07,490 --> 01:24:05,330
for about three weeks I was I I sleep in

2099
01:24:08,450 --> 01:24:07,500
this room because I work shift work and

2100
01:24:12,649 --> 01:24:08,460
uh

2101
01:24:14,870 --> 01:24:12,659
so I don't disturb anybody else and um

2102
01:24:17,810 --> 01:24:14,880
I just kept feeling like there was a

2103
01:24:20,149 --> 01:24:17,820
presence around me or something that I

2104
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:20,159
felt back and I was back in November 5.

2105
01:24:26,709 --> 01:24:22,800
and um I really can't explain that but

2106
01:24:30,169 --> 01:24:26,719
I've had that several times but by my my

2107
01:24:32,450 --> 01:24:30,179
hours that I wake up at night are just

2108
01:24:37,070 --> 01:24:32,460
really really strange

2109
01:24:40,970 --> 01:24:37,080
so like 111 310 311 411

2110
01:24:44,030 --> 01:24:40,980
oh like consistently yes uh I've got a

2111
01:24:46,310 --> 01:24:44,040
dream log about four inches thick you

2112
01:24:49,130 --> 01:24:46,320
know I mean apocalyptic stuff you know

2113
01:24:51,950 --> 01:24:49,140
like tidal waves nuclear explosions uh

2114
01:24:54,229 --> 01:24:51,960
uh famine just really done you know not

2115
01:24:56,630 --> 01:24:54,239
fun stuff wake you up sweating you know

2116
01:24:59,450 --> 01:24:56,640
you think wow this can't happen you know

2117
01:25:01,729 --> 01:24:59,460
I don't know how to stop that well

2118
01:25:03,649 --> 01:25:01,739
here's kind of a question related have

2119
01:25:05,510 --> 01:25:03,659
you ever worked on dealing with the

2120
01:25:08,090 --> 01:25:05,520
resolving the trauma

2121
01:25:10,910 --> 01:25:08,100
because you deserve to uh well yeah I

2122
01:25:12,890 --> 01:25:10,920
mean that sounds like PTSD I don't I

2123
01:25:14,689 --> 01:25:12,900
don't know through counseling I guess

2124
01:25:16,430 --> 01:25:14,699
that's been mentioned to me several

2125
01:25:19,010 --> 01:25:16,440
times that I really don't know how to

2126
01:25:22,250 --> 01:25:19,020
follow up on that you know I associate

2127
01:25:24,050 --> 01:25:22,260
PTSD with a you know with a wartime act

2128
01:25:25,669 --> 01:25:24,060
or something that you see or feel I

2129
01:25:27,410 --> 01:25:25,679
guess you can get it at any time and

2130
01:25:30,470 --> 01:25:27,420
right this would have definitely been an

2131
01:25:34,330 --> 01:25:30,480
early onset of that uh because I'm

2132
01:25:37,610 --> 01:25:34,340
definitely a uh a guarded person and uh

2133
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:37,620
you know in every way uh I just have to

2134
01:25:41,689 --> 01:25:40,080
be I mean really you I just have to be

2135
01:25:43,310 --> 01:25:41,699
and there's nothing the thing about it

2136
01:25:45,370 --> 01:25:43,320
there's nothing you can do to stop these

2137
01:25:47,870 --> 01:25:45,380
beings there's not one thing you can do

2138
01:25:49,729 --> 01:25:47,880
and you hope that if they ever show

2139
01:25:52,550 --> 01:25:49,739
themselves again

2140
01:25:54,950 --> 01:25:52,560
that you can withstand it that you can

2141
01:25:58,250 --> 01:25:54,960
look at them you know instead of

2142
01:25:59,930 --> 01:25:58,260
flipping out or losing your mind I guess

2143
01:26:02,030 --> 01:25:59,940
I don't know

2144
01:26:04,250 --> 01:26:02,040
yeah I don't like using the word I don't

2145
01:26:07,370 --> 01:26:04,260
know but in this case I really don't

2146
01:26:09,890 --> 01:26:07,380
know yeah well I can't I can't even

2147
01:26:12,950 --> 01:26:09,900
imagine uh what that what is that like

2148
01:26:15,649 --> 01:26:12,960
have you met other people that are

2149
01:26:18,229 --> 01:26:15,659
saying they're abductees or experiences

2150
01:26:20,510 --> 01:26:18,239
as they say I have and I've talked with

2151
01:26:22,550 --> 01:26:20,520
two of them and uh there's some pretty

2152
01:26:26,209 --> 01:26:22,560
credible people and they they've got a

2153
01:26:29,530 --> 01:26:26,219
lot of uh resume behind them in this in

2154
01:26:35,270 --> 01:26:32,290
and uh have you ever this is another

2155
01:26:36,290 --> 01:26:35,280
question from Electric jellyfish I like

2156
01:26:38,149 --> 01:26:36,300
that one

2157
01:26:40,129 --> 01:26:38,159
um have you ever thought of yeah have

2158
01:26:41,090 --> 01:26:40,139
you ever thought of writing a book yes I

2159
01:26:43,250 --> 01:26:41,100
have

2160
01:26:45,110 --> 01:26:43,260
got a friend that's been writing books

2161
01:26:47,990 --> 01:26:45,120
and he's he's really really good at it

2162
01:26:50,810 --> 01:26:48,000
and I'm gonna see if I can to have him

2163
01:26:52,550 --> 01:26:50,820
up for maybe showing me how or I mean

2164
01:26:54,590 --> 01:26:52,560
I've got enough notes probably to put

2165
01:26:56,090 --> 01:26:54,600
together for it because I I do take a

2166
01:26:58,550 --> 01:26:56,100
lot of notes and I do write a lot to

2167
01:27:02,090 --> 01:26:58,560
myself or like a journal kind of Entry

2168
01:27:04,310 --> 01:27:02,100
you know but um my sister said the same

2169
01:27:07,310 --> 01:27:04,320
thing she said I should write a book but

2170
01:27:09,169 --> 01:27:07,320
uh you know it seemed it seems like it

2171
01:27:10,490 --> 01:27:09,179
would be very interesting for a lot of

2172
01:27:13,010 --> 01:27:10,500
people

2173
01:27:15,050 --> 01:27:13,020
um do you know if there's another uh

2174
01:27:17,450 --> 01:27:15,060
question here do you know if the nearby

2175
01:27:19,129 --> 01:27:17,460
Air Base caught anything on radar did

2176
01:27:21,649 --> 01:27:19,139
anyone catch anything on radar when this

2177
01:27:23,390 --> 01:27:21,659
was happening that you're aware of uh

2178
01:27:26,090 --> 01:27:23,400
I'm not aware of it but you know Rapid

2179
01:27:28,550 --> 01:27:26,100
City Airport was actually closer than

2180
01:27:30,649 --> 01:27:28,560
Ellsworth Air Force Base

2181
01:27:33,050 --> 01:27:30,659
um so I I don't know if either either

2182
01:27:34,970 --> 01:27:33,060
did and I didn't even know to ask and I

2183
01:27:37,010 --> 01:27:34,980
was too afraid to ask to be honest with

2184
01:27:39,470 --> 01:27:37,020
you because you have to realize you know

2185
01:27:42,890 --> 01:27:39,480
it's a whole lot different for an Airman

2186
01:27:45,290 --> 01:27:42,900
or an NCO to have an incident

2187
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:45,300
and to talk about it

2188
01:27:51,890 --> 01:27:48,000
versus an officer

2189
01:27:53,570 --> 01:27:51,900
and and meaning that an officer usually

2190
01:27:55,550 --> 01:27:53,580
has

2191
01:27:57,649 --> 01:27:55,560
uh

2192
01:27:58,610 --> 01:27:57,659
you know a different higher chain of

2193
01:28:01,610 --> 01:27:58,620
command

2194
01:28:03,290 --> 01:28:01,620
uh to discuss things with and you know

2195
01:28:04,910 --> 01:28:03,300
like a launch control officer sitting on

2196
01:28:07,129 --> 01:28:04,920
the ground when all his all 10 of his

2197
01:28:10,070 --> 01:28:07,139
missiles go offline

2198
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:10,080
well it's not only known by him it's

2199
01:28:15,110 --> 01:28:12,960
known by everybody that monitors the

2200
01:28:17,570 --> 01:28:15,120
capability of our nuclear weapon Arsenal

2201
01:28:19,070 --> 01:28:17,580
I mean it's just not in combine it's

2202
01:28:23,090 --> 01:28:19,080
just not confined to them everybody

2203
01:28:24,350 --> 01:28:23,100
knows about it you know yeah and uh so

2204
01:28:26,270 --> 01:28:24,360
everything you know everything

2205
01:28:27,770 --> 01:28:26,280
transpires from that many reports are

2206
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:27,780
generated just from that one incident

2207
01:28:31,870 --> 01:28:29,760
there but for something like what

2208
01:28:36,070 --> 01:28:31,880
happened to us

2209
01:28:38,930 --> 01:28:36,080
I I think that they really honestly

2210
01:28:40,729 --> 01:28:38,940
don't know how to approach it and don't

2211
01:28:43,550 --> 01:28:40,739
want to acknowledge it and say it never

2212
01:28:45,830 --> 01:28:43,560
happened or it can happen or we don't

2213
01:28:47,930 --> 01:28:45,840
understand it so it can't happen so

2214
01:28:49,729 --> 01:28:47,940
don't talk about it or you will be in

2215
01:28:51,350 --> 01:28:49,739
trouble you're still going overseas no

2216
01:28:53,030 --> 01:28:51,360
matter what you do

2217
01:28:54,770 --> 01:28:53,040
and that that's just the way it that's

2218
01:28:58,070 --> 01:28:54,780
the way it just pans out unfortunately

2219
01:29:01,010 --> 01:28:58,080
it all rolls downhill right right and

2220
01:29:03,229 --> 01:29:01,020
now this as of this year with the new

2221
01:29:04,930 --> 01:29:03,239
bill that was signed

2222
01:29:08,209 --> 01:29:04,940
um there's going to be an investigation

2223
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:08,219
of these type of situations all the way

2224
01:29:12,290 --> 01:29:09,199
back to

2225
01:29:14,689 --> 01:29:12,300
1945. so this is something I hope that

2226
01:29:16,550 --> 01:29:14,699
they do take a look at you know this

2227
01:29:18,770 --> 01:29:16,560
this particular situation and the other

2228
01:29:20,810 --> 01:29:18,780
you know like Maelstrom air base and

2229
01:29:22,910 --> 01:29:20,820
other uh you know when there was

2230
01:29:26,030 --> 01:29:22,920
interference with with nukes because

2231
01:29:28,189 --> 01:29:26,040
this is this these weren't nukes they

2232
01:29:31,310 --> 01:29:28,199
were what were they

2233
01:29:35,590 --> 01:29:31,320
what were these missiles nukes oh they

2234
01:29:41,930 --> 01:29:39,649
each yes yeah nasty little things so

2235
01:29:44,149 --> 01:29:41,940
yeah so there was interference with

2236
01:29:45,950 --> 01:29:44,159
these nukes

2237
01:29:48,649 --> 01:29:45,960
um I think you know I mean if that's not

2238
01:29:50,629 --> 01:29:48,659
National Security what is I mean this

2239
01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:50,639
should be an investigation yeah and you

2240
01:29:54,110 --> 01:29:52,260
know you and I discussed before you know

2241
01:29:56,390 --> 01:29:54,120
a lot of people talk about well they

2242
01:29:58,129 --> 01:29:56,400
shut this down they shut these sides

2243
01:29:59,870 --> 01:29:58,139
down they shut these missiles off right

2244
01:30:01,610 --> 01:29:59,880
and then all of a sudden they came back

2245
01:30:04,430 --> 01:30:01,620
on well you know it wasn't always like

2246
01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:04,440
that now there were times I I think they

2247
01:30:08,149 --> 01:30:06,000
have fun with us I think they like to

2248
01:30:09,590 --> 01:30:08,159
see what we do I mean I really think

2249
01:30:12,169 --> 01:30:09,600
they have a sense of humor in some way

2250
01:30:13,129 --> 01:30:12,179
they have to have not the first one that

2251
01:30:13,810 --> 01:30:13,139
said that

2252
01:30:17,990 --> 01:30:13,820
um

2253
01:30:19,790 --> 01:30:18,000
they gotta laugh at that but yeah but

2254
01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:19,800
you know the other thing is it really

2255
01:30:25,189 --> 01:30:22,320
gets me what I I it used to Blow Me Away

2256
01:30:27,470 --> 01:30:25,199
was to get dispatched to a missile site

2257
01:30:28,970 --> 01:30:27,480
whether it be November or Oscar or Echo

2258
01:30:31,010 --> 01:30:28,980
any place that you worked all of a

2259
01:30:33,950 --> 01:30:31,020
sudden because I did vacation relief

2260
01:30:35,689 --> 01:30:33,960
also you know and um but everybody knew

2261
01:30:38,209 --> 01:30:35,699
about this

2262
01:30:39,709 --> 01:30:38,219
a missile starts to cycle itself to

2263
01:30:43,490 --> 01:30:39,719
Launch

2264
01:30:45,770 --> 01:30:43,500
out of the blue not turn itself off but

2265
01:30:47,330 --> 01:30:45,780
cycle to launch start going through the

2266
01:30:50,930 --> 01:30:47,340
launch sequence

2267
01:30:52,010 --> 01:30:50,940
on their on their uh com boards

2268
01:30:54,229 --> 01:30:52,020
Underground

2269
01:30:56,270 --> 01:30:54,239
so they call in a panic oh my god well

2270
01:30:57,530 --> 01:30:56,280
you know we need you to do something so

2271
01:30:59,930 --> 01:30:57,540
they're trying to think of things for

2272
01:31:02,930 --> 01:30:59,940
you to stop this rocket you know in case

2273
01:31:04,550 --> 01:31:02,940
it does launch uh now the nuclear part

2274
01:31:07,310 --> 01:31:04,560
couldn't couldn't function they haven't

2275
01:31:08,689 --> 01:31:07,320
been armed wouldn't be armed but

2276
01:31:11,209 --> 01:31:08,699
but that wouldn't matter to someone

2277
01:31:13,370 --> 01:31:11,219
seeing a missile coming would it yeah it

2278
01:31:15,470 --> 01:31:13,380
wouldn't matter but the thing about it

2279
01:31:17,030 --> 01:31:15,480
is so what's the amino what's the

2280
01:31:19,310 --> 01:31:17,040
immediate thing that we can do to stop

2281
01:31:21,770 --> 01:31:19,320
this prevent this from happening first

2282
01:31:22,669 --> 01:31:21,780
thing jump in your vehicle with your

2283
01:31:25,010 --> 01:31:22,679
partner

2284
01:31:26,870 --> 01:31:25,020
haul buggy out to this missile site

2285
01:31:29,209 --> 01:31:26,880
literally

2286
01:31:32,149 --> 01:31:29,219
put your Mist Drive up onto the blast

2287
01:31:34,010 --> 01:31:32,159
door which is a 13-ton concrete octagon

2288
01:31:36,290 --> 01:31:34,020
shaped door with a Cattle Trail at one

2289
01:31:37,970 --> 01:31:36,300
end of it and it blows it off on Rails

2290
01:31:40,310 --> 01:31:37,980
if it goes there's about I don't know

2291
01:31:41,870 --> 01:31:40,320
how many hundreds of pounds of uh of

2292
01:31:43,790 --> 01:31:41,880
explosives there are in that door to

2293
01:31:45,709 --> 01:31:43,800
blow it off but it's immediate when that

2294
01:31:47,750 --> 01:31:45,719
door blows that missile goes it's just

2295
01:31:50,209 --> 01:31:47,760
that fast there's no hesitation

2296
01:31:52,070 --> 01:31:50,219
but anyway in hopes that you put your

2297
01:31:54,350 --> 01:31:52,080
vehicle a one and a half ton vehicle on

2298
01:31:56,030 --> 01:31:54,360
top of that door you face it in the

2299
01:31:59,090 --> 01:31:56,040
direction of the Cattle Trail

2300
01:32:01,310 --> 01:31:59,100
put it in neutral get it get your stuff

2301
01:32:03,590 --> 01:32:01,320
and run off that site and get a mile

2302
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:03,600
away from it this is that's a standard

2303
01:32:09,410 --> 01:32:06,960
sop get a mile away from it and watch

2304
01:32:11,810 --> 01:32:09,420
now if it launches that door is going to

2305
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:11,820
blow off and hopefully that

2306
01:32:16,189 --> 01:32:13,920
vehicle will fall down on top of that

2307
01:32:17,930 --> 01:32:16,199
missile before it launches and it'll

2308
01:32:19,729 --> 01:32:17,940
mess up the gyro and it'll cause it to

2309
01:32:20,930 --> 01:32:19,739
go off and just crash in the in the

2310
01:32:24,229 --> 01:32:20,940
prairie somewhere

2311
01:32:26,750 --> 01:32:24,239
that's crazy how close did one get to

2312
01:32:28,970 --> 01:32:26,760
launching I really don't know but I mean

2313
01:32:30,649 --> 01:32:28,980
that was what we used to have to do when

2314
01:32:32,390 --> 01:32:30,659
they did it and of course they didn't

2315
01:32:33,649 --> 01:32:32,400
launch so then we were told all clear to

2316
01:32:38,050 --> 01:32:33,659
go back and get your vehicle and get off

2317
01:32:42,229 --> 01:32:41,149
what was the investigation and uh what

2318
01:32:44,090 --> 01:32:42,239
did they come up with for an

2319
01:32:46,669 --> 01:32:44,100
investigation of why this happened we

2320
01:32:48,530 --> 01:32:46,679
were never told you know the only ICBM

2321
01:32:50,629 --> 01:32:48,540
that ever flew literally out of out of

2322
01:32:52,490 --> 01:32:50,639
one of the uh launch facilities was that

2323
01:32:54,050 --> 01:32:52,500
November too and that was a test

2324
01:32:56,510 --> 01:32:54,060
sequence I think it flew for five

2325
01:32:57,950 --> 01:32:56,520
seconds before they detonated it you

2326
01:33:00,410 --> 01:32:57,960
know blew it up conventionally had it

2327
01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:00,420
was not armed it was just a test to see

2328
01:33:03,310 --> 01:33:01,920
that they would fly

2329
01:33:06,530 --> 01:33:03,320
yeah yeah

2330
01:33:07,729 --> 01:33:06,540
wow boy this is uh this is really

2331
01:33:10,610 --> 01:33:07,739
something

2332
01:33:12,110 --> 01:33:10,620
um let's see this is I think this is

2333
01:33:15,830 --> 01:33:12,120
actually a good question now I know this

2334
01:33:17,870 --> 01:33:15,840
is 1977. but were you really thirsty

2335
01:33:19,129 --> 01:33:17,880
immediately after the situation do you

2336
01:33:21,350 --> 01:33:19,139
happen to remember

2337
01:33:23,090 --> 01:33:21,360
say that again I'm glad you remember

2338
01:33:25,610 --> 01:33:23,100
that yeah

2339
01:33:27,290 --> 01:33:25,620
was he asked if I was really thirsty I'm

2340
01:33:30,649 --> 01:33:27,300
telling you man I could have drank new

2341
01:33:32,209 --> 01:33:30,659
Lake dry and I'm not kidding you he just

2342
01:33:33,470 --> 01:33:32,219
asked if I was thirsty after my

2343
01:33:37,250 --> 01:33:33,480
abduction

2344
01:33:39,709 --> 01:33:37,260
yeah right and and I'm wondering what

2345
01:33:41,629 --> 01:33:39,719
what is related to uh where he came up

2346
01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:41,639
with that and because I've never heard

2347
01:33:46,910 --> 01:33:43,920
of anyone talk about

2348
01:33:50,510 --> 01:33:46,920
that I've never been asked out

2349
01:33:51,470 --> 01:33:50,520
yeah yeah well I remember I asked Travis

2350
01:33:53,510 --> 01:33:51,480
Walton

2351
01:33:55,629 --> 01:33:53,520
if it was four days where did you go the

2352
01:34:01,070 --> 01:33:55,639
bathroom

2353
01:34:02,149 --> 01:34:01,080
facilities uh you know if you remembered

2354
01:34:04,250 --> 01:34:02,159
any of that

2355
01:34:06,590 --> 01:34:04,260
um and he he doesn't remember any of

2356
01:34:07,910 --> 01:34:06,600
that but uh but this has been a real

2357
01:34:10,250 --> 01:34:07,920
pleasure let me just see if there's

2358
01:34:12,709 --> 01:34:10,260
anything else we got going here

2359
01:34:14,689 --> 01:34:12,719
uh let's see given all that you've been

2360
01:34:18,110 --> 01:34:14,699
through would you voluntarily go through

2361
01:34:19,669 --> 01:34:18,120
another event like 1977 I think you you

2362
01:34:20,570 --> 01:34:19,679
said that was horrifying you really

2363
01:34:22,970 --> 01:34:20,580
wouldn't

2364
01:34:25,010 --> 01:34:22,980
right I mean this is nothing you're

2365
01:34:27,110 --> 01:34:25,020
really interested in I think that if the

2366
01:34:29,689 --> 01:34:27,120
opportunity well I don't know if it'd be

2367
01:34:31,310 --> 01:34:29,699
an opportunity or not but if they come

2368
01:34:32,870 --> 01:34:31,320
for you you

2369
01:34:33,830 --> 01:34:32,880
you're there's nothing you can do about

2370
01:34:37,850 --> 01:34:33,840
it

2371
01:34:40,729 --> 01:34:37,860
more understanding

2372
01:34:44,149 --> 01:34:40,739
uh I would try to

2373
01:34:45,890 --> 01:34:44,159
I would try to keep my composure

2374
01:34:49,010 --> 01:34:45,900
and uh

2375
01:34:51,770 --> 01:34:49,020
try to keep a logical head about me

2376
01:34:54,709 --> 01:34:51,780
I I don't know if I could ever you know

2377
01:34:56,330 --> 01:34:54,719
you'd like to think that um

2378
01:34:58,010 --> 01:34:56,340
that you could stick your hand out say

2379
01:35:00,050 --> 01:34:58,020
how you doing you know like like they

2380
01:35:01,310 --> 01:35:00,060
did in closing Canada whatever that was

2381
01:35:03,050 --> 01:35:01,320
you know but

2382
01:35:04,550 --> 01:35:03,060
I don't know if you can't I mean you're

2383
01:35:06,649 --> 01:35:04,560
talking about a completely different

2384
01:35:09,290 --> 01:35:06,659
species from somewhere far off in the

2385
01:35:10,729 --> 01:35:09,300
universe you know or light light years

2386
01:35:13,070 --> 01:35:10,739
away I don't know

2387
01:35:15,169 --> 01:35:13,080
uh or maybe they've been here for many

2388
01:35:17,810 --> 01:35:15,179
many thousands of years Under the Sea

2389
01:35:19,850 --> 01:35:17,820
Under the Ground who knows again they

2390
01:35:22,070 --> 01:35:19,860
want to do I don't think it seems like I

2391
01:35:25,310 --> 01:35:22,080
I hear that kind of

2392
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:25,320
uh narration quite a bit lately that uh

2393
01:35:29,750 --> 01:35:27,360
you know maybe they've been here for a

2394
01:35:32,209 --> 01:35:29,760
long time I had someone from a former

2395
01:35:34,550 --> 01:35:32,219
CIA on uh recently who kind of said the

2396
01:35:38,090 --> 01:35:34,560
same thing and uh it seems like I'm

2397
01:35:39,950 --> 01:35:38,100
hearing that uh you know more and more

2398
01:35:41,209 --> 01:35:39,960
these days

2399
01:35:43,189 --> 01:35:41,219
and

2400
01:35:44,930 --> 01:35:43,199
let's see is it's related to the time

2401
01:35:46,490 --> 01:35:44,940
dilation between different reference

2402
01:35:48,770 --> 01:35:46,500
frames I'm not really sure what that

2403
01:35:52,430 --> 01:35:48,780
that's not really a question

2404
01:35:53,750 --> 01:35:52,440
but uh here's uh I'm just gonna pop up a

2405
01:35:56,030 --> 01:35:53,760
couple more questions here and then

2406
01:35:58,129 --> 01:35:56,040
we'll call it a night do you think you

2407
01:35:59,930 --> 01:35:58,139
could have overpowered them physically

2408
01:36:02,090 --> 01:35:59,940
if

2409
01:36:05,030 --> 01:36:02,100
um they didn't knock you out

2410
01:36:06,770 --> 01:36:05,040
you know I mean would you even dare to

2411
01:36:09,770 --> 01:36:06,780
try

2412
01:36:13,610 --> 01:36:09,780
I I want to say this if um

2413
01:36:17,470 --> 01:36:15,950
when I was standing in November 5 when I

2414
01:36:20,510 --> 01:36:17,480
was just out there

2415
01:36:23,390 --> 01:36:20,520
last year I mean I'm this is this I did

2416
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:26,450
whether to run

2417
01:36:32,510 --> 01:36:29,090
and I was armed heavily armed shoot at

2418
01:36:36,050 --> 01:36:34,729
and I said this on live TV or mess

2419
01:36:38,689 --> 01:36:36,060
myself

2420
01:36:41,330 --> 01:36:38,699
because you you're literally in that

2421
01:36:43,550 --> 01:36:41,340
state of mind to where you're the rabbit

2422
01:36:45,770 --> 01:36:43,560
behind the bush

2423
01:36:48,430 --> 01:36:45,780
in the middle of the desert and there's

2424
01:36:52,129 --> 01:36:48,440
so only one Bush and you're behind it

2425
01:36:54,169 --> 01:36:52,139
and the worst biggest baddest Hunter on

2426
01:36:55,490 --> 01:36:54,179
in that you could ever think of is on

2427
01:36:58,010 --> 01:36:55,500
the other side of that bush looking at

2428
01:37:02,209 --> 01:36:58,020
you knowing you're there

2429
01:37:04,010 --> 01:37:02,219
I don't I don't know if I could uh

2430
01:37:06,649 --> 01:37:04,020
I don't know if I could overpower them I

2431
01:37:09,649 --> 01:37:06,659
mean I guess physically I could

2432
01:37:12,169 --> 01:37:09,659
I I think but who knows maybe they don't

2433
01:37:13,669 --> 01:37:12,179
need muscle maybe they use their mind to

2434
01:37:17,090 --> 01:37:13,679
do whatever they want maybe they can

2435
01:37:18,770 --> 01:37:17,100
manipulate you me anybody as they want

2436
01:37:19,910 --> 01:37:18,780
to you know you don't think anybody

2437
01:37:21,610 --> 01:37:19,920
could

2438
01:37:24,649 --> 01:37:21,620
but

2439
01:37:26,149 --> 01:37:24,659
we don't know their capabilities yeah

2440
01:37:28,850 --> 01:37:26,159
honestly

2441
01:37:31,189 --> 01:37:28,860
I kind of agree with you there it's uh

2442
01:37:34,129 --> 01:37:31,199
it seems to me that they could do about

2443
01:37:37,070 --> 01:37:34,139
anything they wanted to in my opinion

2444
01:37:38,870 --> 01:37:37,080
from what you know I've heard uh people

2445
01:37:42,590 --> 01:37:38,880
have talked about over the years it just

2446
01:37:44,030 --> 01:37:42,600
seems like uh like you know where that

2447
01:37:46,970 --> 01:37:44,040
they're so they're on a different level

2448
01:37:49,129 --> 01:37:46,980
and we can't even imagine the level

2449
01:37:52,610 --> 01:37:49,139
at the Run

2450
01:37:54,229 --> 01:37:52,620
but um this one last question here just

2451
01:37:57,350 --> 01:37:54,239
popped up are you familiar with the perk

2452
01:37:59,270 --> 01:37:57,360
the Berkshires UFO incident

2453
01:38:01,250 --> 01:37:59,280
did you look into that I've heard of it

2454
01:38:04,390 --> 01:38:01,260
I've heard of The Berkshire that's up in

2455
01:38:08,050 --> 01:38:04,400
uh is that New York Massachusetts

2456
01:38:10,490 --> 01:38:08,060
yeah I've heard of it yeah

2457
01:38:13,790 --> 01:38:10,500
it's uh where did that come from it's

2458
01:38:15,770 --> 01:38:13,800
quite interesting and uh it's really

2459
01:38:16,490 --> 01:38:15,780
it's on Netflix

2460
01:38:20,350 --> 01:38:16,500
um

2461
01:38:23,510 --> 01:38:20,360
Unsolved Mysteries uh season or so ago

2462
01:38:25,970 --> 01:38:23,520
but it's really quite quite a very it's

2463
01:38:29,930 --> 01:38:25,980
they did a really good job with it and a

2464
01:38:31,850 --> 01:38:29,940
lot of people knew it as the Tom Reed uh

2465
01:38:34,790 --> 01:38:31,860
abduction you know family abduction and

2466
01:38:37,070 --> 01:38:34,800
there's a monument and all that yeah I

2467
01:38:39,590 --> 01:38:37,080
do know about that yeah I was awesome so

2468
01:38:42,649 --> 01:38:39,600
many people yeah I was also amazed that

2469
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:42,659
Graham Hancock's uh what is it uh

2470
01:38:47,689 --> 01:38:44,400
ancient um

2471
01:38:51,290 --> 01:38:47,699
not ancient archaeologist uh

2472
01:38:54,649 --> 01:38:51,300
he just he just did that on Netflix uh

2473
01:38:57,169 --> 01:38:54,659
yeah archeology but ancient apocalypse I

2474
01:38:59,390 --> 01:38:57,179
think is what he said what it was and it

2475
01:39:01,550 --> 01:38:59,400
is it's phenomenal some of the stuff

2476
01:39:03,070 --> 01:39:01,560
that uh that he's gotten and and how

2477
01:39:05,450 --> 01:39:03,080
they've dated some of these things again

2478
01:39:06,830 --> 01:39:05,460
archeology is just telling so much and

2479
01:39:09,350 --> 01:39:06,840
you know for everything that's there

2480
01:39:12,290 --> 01:39:09,360
it's only about six percent of what

2481
01:39:13,910 --> 01:39:12,300
exists so that just blows my mind you

2482
01:39:16,490 --> 01:39:13,920
know I mean it's Sahara desert in Egypt

2483
01:39:18,410 --> 01:39:16,500
but it's even there 12 000 years ago it

2484
01:39:20,870 --> 01:39:18,420
was a lot well they have no way to date

2485
01:39:23,570 --> 01:39:20,880
unless they find something that was

2486
01:39:25,970 --> 01:39:23,580
contemporary with whatever it is they

2487
01:39:27,709 --> 01:39:25,980
find you can't date stone you know you

2488
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:27,719
can do all kinds of things with pottery

2489
01:39:31,729 --> 01:39:30,000
and wood and you can date all that stuff

2490
01:39:34,490 --> 01:39:31,739
but when it comes to Stone they you

2491
01:39:36,950 --> 01:39:34,500
can't date when it was shaped and formed

2492
01:39:38,930 --> 01:39:36,960
and moved and you know the stone itself

2493
01:39:41,209 --> 01:39:38,940
is you know millions of years old so

2494
01:39:43,189 --> 01:39:41,219
they can't they can't date those times

2495
01:39:45,890 --> 01:39:43,199
but anyway a fascinating conversation

2496
01:39:47,629 --> 01:39:45,900
Mario thank you so much thank you very

2497
01:39:49,370 --> 01:39:47,639
much I really appreciate you having me

2498
01:39:51,830 --> 01:39:49,380
yeah and I like our talks even when

2499
01:39:53,810 --> 01:39:51,840
we're not talking on the radio it's

2500
01:39:56,330 --> 01:39:53,820
always fun to talk to you so you take

2501
01:39:58,490 --> 01:39:56,340
care you too and thank you again all

2502
01:40:00,770 --> 01:39:58,500
right thanks all right everyone so thank

2503
01:40:03,410 --> 01:40:00,780
you so much I'll be back next week with

2504
01:40:05,149 --> 01:40:03,420
Grant Cameron and what did I see someone

2505
01:40:08,090 --> 01:40:05,159
sent me this I thought it was kind of

2506
01:40:09,709 --> 01:40:08,100
funny uh keep looking and keep watching

2507
01:40:13,250 --> 01:40:09,719
the skies well that's similar to what I

2508
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:13,260
say uh so keep your eyes to the sky and

2509
01:40:28,750 --> 01:40:17,930
we'll see you next week at the same time